Daily Credits Implementation [Ideas & Discussions]

Ohm

By now we have a flavor of daily credits. I personally quite enjoy the system and think it is a step in the right direction. This thread is an attempt to fine tune the generation and discuss potential ideas to add more variety in daily credit generation

Current Implementation
- Shardfalls [still not working] 
- Caravans - ok
- Spawnwaves - changes to area-wise adjustment is much welcome
- Bosses - ok
- Leylines - ok


Potential Implementations
- Tradeskills - monthly contests? yearly payouts for your first design in each tradeskill?
- Bardic/ Artisanal - contests?
- Quests - maybe completing honor quests or accumulating enough quest XP
 

Rokas

The changes that happened yesterday were really good. However, I think the spawnwaves that give a minimum of X credits need to NOT count against the first daily credit activity giving five credits.

I think it's a good thing to encourage aspects to stay in aspect areas, but the current incentive is to do the activities that don't guarantee a minimum first (like the newbie spawn areas).

Gjarrus

Errand Recommendations

Rename them to errands, per @Mereis. A little veneer of ICness will help, even if it's still magical credit candy from nowhere.

• Quest completion # - Mentioned this in the other thread. Current quest version is blah.

• Kill/assist # - Helps make general PvP participation count even without objective completion.

• Shards - Converted to 10 shards harvested rather than percentage of an active fall. Aside from the bugs being fixed, it's less prickly since you can go hunt singles if you get 7 in a shardfall.

• Caravans - Changed to count plunders or award for the trader kill a la boss completion. Final plunder is dumb. 20 plunders is a bit better.

TOKEN GENERATION

I think with the spawnwave value changes, the one lingering issue is that token generation is linked to spawnwave completion (doubloon generation? Haven't confirmed if it's only at doubloon time). Without that, I don't have much reason to complete lowbie spawnwaves other than doubloon farming or trying to 'speed' through the generation. Bosses are faster anyway, or I could just run a UW area once for less hassle, more profit, and get all the dailies between mob kills/completion/champ time.

Here's some ideas, not all necessarily worthy of a gold star.

• Earning 120 daily credits (half the available supply for the time period)
• Getting a design approved
• Participating in an Obelisk battle
• Summoning a Plague (10c for daily is nice since it nudges summoning towards 5p PST softly, but it's more than half a 'day' of effort.)
• Doing your towne's figurine quest
• Going up a guild/city/sect rank.
• Earning a new qhonor?
• Etc

Promo Generation

Not going to touch on which/if any should be deleted.

For the most part, just creating a buy option with credits and tokens should be good. Chips/stones need to be added pronto, and they should be relatively cheap (the 100c select stone purchase from Cristof [sp] would be reasonable for 5 days of effort to a new race). Mounts could be spawned randomly for tamers to collect. Some single-use items could go on the relic drop table.

Ohm

Currently there is no way to generate or buy promo items in the daily credits system.

Perhaps award phylacteries, consumable promo items, treasures where you have a chance to receive promo items. 

Tyanna

Some more newbie/noncom ideas:

- Harvesting shards or turning shards in, versus just participating in starfalls. I like to explore and gather shards.

- One-time bonus when first completing a quest. This encourages new players to explore and learn.

- Something to reward just general participation and activity. That's a huge factor in hooking a new player and retaining them, so rewarding activity and socialization would be good. I don't really know how you'd track or reward this, though

- Approval of a crafting design

- Publishing a new book in a library. Potential to be gamed if people just copy existing books, so some sort of check for originality? Might be too much work without an extensive library system (Lusternia's entire culture/library system seems perfect for credit rewards)

- RP - this is tricky and subjective, but it would be awesome to reward. A potential idea to mitigate that while also limiting the need for admin oversight could be something like a crafting queue for RP rewards. If Joe does a great job RPing, you can RPCOMMEND (or whatever) JOE <explanation here about what Joe did). Other players can then review this queue and approve reasonable RP commendations. 

- Mentor/Leader discretionary rewards - Let org leaders and mentors nominate players for a credit reward, similar approval to RP. 

I think there may be potential issues with these tying into the diminishing returns so perhaps have these rewards external from the daily 20, or else you're going to have a situation where a design gets approved and you're already at 20 or your great RP ritual ends up only netting 1 credit by the time it's rewarded. Maybe also include a longer cooldown, eg 20 credits but only once every 3-5 RL days.

The other thread mentioned linking forums with rewards - a great thing to reward this way would be sharing and discussing combat logs. It's a great way to improve at PK and help everyone learn. I paid a gold reward in one game for log sharing AND for commenting and it really helped create a fighting culture in that org.

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Perhaps consider a revision to the mentor incentives. Credit purchase kickbacks aren't really compelling anymore. Maybe a stipend per active protege or rewards based on time spent interacting, hunting etc together.

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Also it would be pretty cool if artifact houses were swapped to credits. This would let the building/creation type of players basically do a bit of MUD minecraft, bashing up credits to create cool houses. I know it sounds weird, but some of us love this sort of quiet grinding and building and the new system seems ideal to support that if houses were changed to credit purchases instead of tokens.

Deklan

Survival mode spawnwaves.
Premise:

Unending waves of enemies similar to Overrun, bash until you die. Get rewarded X amount of credits per wave survived, counts towards the daily limit. After daily limit for credits, start getting tokens? I think that'd be best suited for the Underworld locations since getting the means to go down there is entirely optional. Go through the successive spawn waves, as normal, but if you manage to hit the end of the normal 'roster' it just goes back to the beginning again, maybe with a strength buff to the mobs?

Gives endgame built/pre-Free-Imperian artid up players somewhere to bash without stomping lower level players, gives lower level players more places to go in the overworld. Gives Underworld some love?

The only sticking point maybe would be someone bulking up the creepers in Caanae to some ungodly level cause they're going HAM in the area and someone comes down there and gets fragged by a level 500 ubercreeper.

Tyanna

Another non-com idea - something to do with pet taming. 

Mereis

Deklan said:

Survival mode spawnwaves.

One loophole I arrived at is that I could just max out my dailycredits in the overworld, then hop on down to UW to generate tokens starting from the 'easy' levels of the UW spawnwaves.

Plus, limitless resource generation will only lend to excessive camping of the areas.

To combat the first problem, maybe make it so that post-credit rewards will only tick at something like the 10th wave onwards.

To combat the second problem, I have a two-pronged approach:
1) you can only get a maximum of 5 tokens per IG year
2) after maxing out your token generation, completing survival spawnwaves will then generate promo items

Havamal

Give people some daily credits for participating in the arena every now and again.  It's consequence-free PVP and this would do a lot to help encourage people just learning not to become demoralized.

Mereis

I very much understand the difficulty of assigning dailycredit values to subjective things like crafting/designing.

However, it should be acknowledged that designing is just as difficult as, if not more difficult than, PK or bashing.

Not only do you have to have the inspiration to design something, you also need to know your stuff regarding grammar and designing rules, and you need to be able to defend your design against critiques.

As an example, I had to re-do a design today just to add a single character (+) and in so doing make the whole design agreeable to crafting rules.

With this in mind, I think that having a design approved should generate at least 10 dailycredits, more or less. We should acknowledge and reward the people who enrich the Imperian experience.

Ohm

Mereis said:

I very much understand the difficulty of assigning dailycredit values to subjective things like crafting/designing.

However, it should be acknowledged that designing is just as difficult as, if not more difficult than, PK or bashing.

Not only do you have to have the inspiration to design something, you also need to know your stuff regarding grammar and designing rules, and you need to be able to defend your design against critiques.

As an example, I had to re-do a design today just to add a single character (+) and in so doing make the whole design agreeable to crafting rules.

With this in mind, I think that having a design approved should generate at least 10 dailycredits, more or less. We should acknowledge and reward the people who enrich the Imperian experience.

The issue here is that you create a ‘red dress’ and then simply palette swap to a ‘blue dress’ and then ‘green dress’ using your initial approval as a template.

Personally I feel every, you should be able to earn a maximum of 100 trade skill credits per game year to put a lid on abuse.

I also feel that library bardic works should fall in the same category. 

At some point I would also hope we can have a self policed community to manage HELP files similar to Wikipedia

Tyanna

We only have a limited number of designs per IG year and there is a long approval process. It's not spammable.

Eoghan

Tyanna said:

We only have a limited number of designs per IG year

This is incorrect. You may have 5+(number of tradeskill known) designs submitted simultaneously. If a design is approved (or rejected) you can instantly submit another design, regardless of the number you've submitted this year.

Havamal

At one point I had literally like 20 designs in the queue on my previous character, because I had several that were up in the air or elevated and I had a bijillion craftskills (* slight exagerration)

To say it isn't spammable, is patently false.

However, I also think it would be quite a simple manner to curb spam if it happens.  Add a mechanism to take away daily credits for people being spammy, and push that button when they are.

Deklan

Maybe when submitting a design for approval we can optionally flag it for dailycredit review as well?

Tyanna

 Eoghan said:

Tyanna said:

We only have a limited number of designs per IG year

This is incorrect. You may have 5+(number of tradeskill known) designs submitted simultaneously. If a design is approved (or rejected) you can instantly submit another design, regardless of the number you've submitted this year.

Sorry, I'm new to crafting here. I'll just shut up.

Havamal

I should be clear that I'm not dissenting from the suggestion that crafting carries rewards.  I not only think it is a nice idea, I think it should.  I do think we need to consider that it is _inevitable_ people are going to spam low-quality designs to try to get rewards, though.

Another consideration is duplication, too, especially since approvers might not pick up on it if the approvals system is the same as on Aetolia (it may or may not be, I'm not an approver here, just there)

Mereis

I'm not an approver here, either, and I only just got into crafting and designing, so I have little knowledge of the details. How are designs approved here? Get enough approvals and it gets pushed out into the game?

Eoghan

Once a design is submitted, it will remain in the queue until

1. It is withdrawn by the submitter
2. It receives 3 approvals from approvers (or one approval from a member of the administration)
3. It receives 3 rejections from approvers (or one rejection from a member of the administration)

Being an approver is anonymous - no one can see who is an approver (except the administration) and the crafting channel is anonymous (except for the administration).

Mereis

I see! Well, aren't people first screened by admins before becoming approvers? So it's not like they're "just anyone". The risk of "low quality" designs being pushed out seems like a tiny thing, in that case. Especially if there's a limit to how many dailycredits you can get from designing (100 credits per IG year, as suggested above).

Havamal

Im not worried about them getting through the queue, Im worried about such a change increasimg the workload for approvers by an order of magnitude.

Gjarrus

This problem would be solved if dyes from Aetolia were added in [with a fix for the issue $(color$) has in cosmetic designs' shelfholders]. Then cheesing with almost copies doled out over time could be punishable.

After that, it's just ironing out the exact payment type. I'd be tempted to say a standard 5c per approval per tradeskill per day. Example day:

dailycredits
You have earned 20 of 20 daily credits.
 - Finished a Tailoring design for 5 credits.
 - Plundered a caravan in the Vardarian Highlands for 5 credits.
 - Champion Time for 4 credits.
 - Finished an Apothecary design for 5 credits.
 - Killed 50 enemies. for 1 credits. (sic)

Havamal

I agree, if we implemented dyes like Aet has this would be very agreeable; therell still be some spam, Im sure, but there would be no reason it couldnt be turfed

Gjarrus

Shardfalls still not doing anything, btw. Just make it 10 shards harvested per tick already.

Ohm

I’d also recommend lowering caravan plunder ticks to 10 (from 20)

Havamal

Yeah I think 20 is probably a bit much since this is a group endeavour.

Mereis

Idea: dailycredits (even just 1 or 2) for harvesting.

Down with the toadstool shortage!

Ciro

 said:

Idea: dailycredits (even just 1 or 2) for harvesting.

Down with the toadstool shortage!

Yes! Credits for collecting/harvesting/crafting please. 

Gjarrus

@Eoghan @Jeremy Saunders 

Rename dailycredits to errands.

Regular errand ticks:
10 plunders
10 shards harvested (current iteration still broken)
30 minutes spent at an island with an active outpost/obelisk fight

1 token per 140 daily credits earned (2/month max).

1c per 100/300/600/1000/1500/3000 plants harvested (I dunno if anyone can get up to 3000, seen 2800 though)
1c per 1/3/6/10/15/30 player kills or assists
1c per 1/3/6/10/15/30 quests completed

Add 10/9/8/7/6 tokens to orgcredit rewards.

Change profession lesson loss from switching to 90% until tri-trans with a 14-day grace period until 75%.

(And enable the racial stone vendor.)

Ohm

Regular ticks for:

- Winning arena event
- PK'ing someone from another circle- regular PK rules apply
- First 1/2 items approved by the crafting guild per game year/ per tradeskill. (These could also be a flat rate of 3 credits per approval per year for qualifying items mentioned)
- Killing bosses like Rafe/ Balan/ Harum Scarum solo (or landing the killing blow on them)

Token generation:
- 1 token each for reaching 50/100/200/300 achievements points
- 1 token for mentoring novices past level 50


PS: Please fix shard harvesting ticks - they do not work

Rokas

Guilds need a way to generate credits for themselves.