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Shops -- Revamp?

DecDec Member, Immortal Posts: 216 mod
in General Discussion
Anyone who has ever run a shop knows it is not the easiest thing to figure out.  There is a lot of old and bad code in shops so it has historically been neglected.  So I'm asking a few questions:
  1. How much of a priority should revamping shop keeping be?
  2. Would you be in favor of a revamp if it required you to start from scratch setting up your shop?
  3. Would you be upset if stockrooms were no longer a thing?
  4.  What would you like shop keeping to look like if you were in charge of the world?  The most helpful things here would be to show examples, i.e. type out the commands that people would use to do things and mock up what they would see when they did the commands.  This could be for both the shop keeper and the customer.
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  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 705 ✭✭✭✭
    Seeing as I had the report on shopkeeping, I'm sure it's no surprise my answer is 'please for the love of Charon yes.'

    SHOP CATEGORY CREATE <Name> <Opt: FG> <Opt: BG> - For the organization that shelves currently provide, ordered per shop (so 1, 2, 3, etc).
    SHOP CATEGORY COLOR <Name/#> <FG> <BG>
    SHOP CATEGORY RENAME <Name/#>  <New Name>
    SHOP VIEW <Opt: Category>- View the stuff.
    SHOP STOCK/ADD <Opt: Count> <ITEM> <Price> <Opt: Category>
    SHOP REMOVE/UNSTOCK <Opt; Count> <ITEM>
    SHOP MOVE <ITEM> <Category>
    SHOP PRICE <Opt: ALL> <ITEM> <New price>

    SHOP SHELF EXPAND - Add overall shelf space in 50 slot increments.
    SHOP SHELF CONVERT <type> - Convert some space to specialty or normal in 50 slot increments.


    Basically, just gut the shelf system into something that doesn't require juggling numbers. Having to track your barrels and flasks would be an issue still, but it'd at least remove most of the headache. I would absolutely redo my shop if necessary for this.
  • KalynthariKalynthari Member Posts: 295 ✭✭✭
    Dec said:

    1. How much of a priority should revamping shop keeping be?
    2. Would you be in favor of a revamp if it required you to start from scratch setting up your shop?
    3. Would you be upset if stockrooms were no longer a thing?
    4.  What would you like shop keeping to look like if you were in charge of the world?  The most helpful things here would be to show examples, i.e. type out the commands that people would use to do things and mock up what they would see when they did the commands.  This could be for both the shop keeper and the customer.
    1. High, imo. Shops are pretty integral to the game as a whole.
    2. If starting from scratch is easier than it currently is, I'm all for it.
    3. If there's no replacement for them, then yes. If things on shelves had the same effect as being in a stockroom (no decay) then I wouldn't care.
    4. What Kabaal said, for the most part. As for barrels/flasks, have some sort of identifier so that you could track them easier. Empty_flask, mana_flask, empty_barrel, toadstool_barrel... Etc.
  • OhmOhm Member Posts: 333 ✭✭✭
    with the dwindling population (though not so small any more) and the abundance of artifact shops, the return on shops has become quite negligible. Not sure if there is a way to fix that?
    image
  • DecDec Member, Immortal Posts: 216 mod
    Ohm said:
    with the dwindling population (though not so small any more) and the abundance of artifact shops, the return on shops has become quite negligible. Not sure if there is a way to fix that?
    Are you asking me?  Because generally people bite my head off if I suggest that they pay for anything.  :smile:
  • DeklanDeklan Member Posts: 83 ✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Would it be possible to just dump the barrels/flasks entirely and just go for being able to store riftables and elixirs in the shop cache and sell from there? I know all the shop flasks are token wares items and the barrels cost money, so there'd probably be some kind of recompense to it (expanded rift space for liquids?) if that were to happen. it'd completely eliminate the barrels and flask juggling shopkeepers have to do currently.

    [SHOP STOCK (elixir/salve/herb type) (Opt Amount/full) FOR (X gold)]
    and it just pulls from the shop cache instead of having to put it on the shelf, kind of like a bulk bin idea.

    All I can think of really, juggling those containers is a nightmare. Any other changes I can work with when/if I run a shop again.


  • CordiliaCordilia Member Posts: 36 ✭✭
    edited November 2018
    I’m excited that this is a thing because the shop system is a headache as-is and I’m all for a revamp, even if we have to start over. I wouldn’t mind stockrooms being erased as long as there was some capacity for items to stay non-decay. 
    I would love to eliminate the need for barrels and flasks and I think Deklan’s idea of having them sold from the cache is a good alternative. Shops require huge investments for the most part and are inaccessible to lots of people who don’t have the gold to fund the necessary barrels, flasks and etcetera needed to make a profit.
    It would help to remove the need to use IDs and numbers altogether unless pricing single items. Kabaal’s use of categories would be simple and easy to use. 
    I’m bad at creating commands but a few ideas:
    - Flexible formatting for shop shelves/wares - it’d be fun to remove the -----[Name]---- which is the standard, so that we can personalize our shelves and the default colour of the item IDs
    - Foreground/background shelf name formatting that supports the use of 256 colours
    - Rift-to-cache incaching if possible so you don’t have to OUTR everything you want to incache
    - Better shelfholder management and pricing. Going off Kabaal’s examples, ADD <design> TO CATEGORY works fine, but PRICE ALL <item/shelfholder> only prices the first item type found (so if I have 10 pocketbelt designs, PRICE ALL POCKETBELT would just price the first one)
    - Shopkeepers should be transferable between shops (if you bought them) so as not to lose the potential 150+ credits and 500k spent if you want to buy a tent for yourself and currently own a city shop
    - Better management for apothecary designs (I think Kabaal also reported this in classleads). This all depends on whether or not tints will be removed. You can’t add tints to apothecary designs, only to the physical items. This requires you to craft it, add the tint and then put the item on the shelf. The tint color doesn’t actually show up in WARES and it should. If tints were removed, then a tint ID could be assigned to a design and the pattern could be added to the category like the other tradeskills. 
  • ZaxadorZaxador Member Posts: 13 ✭
    I'm more of a 'shop user' rather than a 'shop runner', but could we tack on some more functionality to 'directory' while we're revamping?  

    Making it area wide instead of being a specific room to use would be helpful, they're not always obvious to find and I have experience, it's gotta be worse for someone truly new.

    Improving its search function to look for descriptions as well?  'directory leather' in Antioch finds nothing currently, but the first shop I looked in had 4 items found with 'wares leather' (none were the armour I was looking for but still).

    Most importantly, could 'directory toadstool' show the results from each applicable venue by price? i.e instead of:
    [code]You refer to the directory and look up all the shops selling the goods you seek.
    ****************************[ Directory Listings ]*****************************

    Shop Name                          VNum    Area                              
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Protectorate Outfitters            13231   Antioch
    Antioch Shuk                       13224 * Antioch
    Shadow of the Trinity Rose         15743   Antioch
    *******************************************************************************
    In order to navigate to a listed shop, you can use PATH FIND <vnum>.[/code]

    Could it be something more like:
    [code]You refer to the directory and look up all the shops selling the goods you seek.
    ****************************[ Directory Listings ]*****************************

    Shop Name                          VNum    Area                              
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Protectorate Outfitters         13231   Antioch
     - Toadstool                          30 gp
    Antioch Shuk                       13224 * Antioch
     - Toadstool                          30,000,000 gp
    Shadow of the Trinity Rose  15743   Antioch
    - Toadstool                           Friendship
    *******************************************************************************
    In order to navigate to a listed shop, you can use PATH FIND <vnum>.[/code]

  • HyperionusHyperionus Member Posts: 41 ✭
    I want to buy toadstools for Friendship... Next stop, Trinity Rose!
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