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Want to Sell - Obelisks and Research Opportunities

JuranJuran Member Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
The city of Antioch, working closely with our allies in Ithaqua, has drafted a proposal that I personally feel is quite generous. We are selling the potential to equalize opportunities for research, and offering to permanently give up our long standing research advantages.

For an initial payment of five million (5,000,000) gold, the circle of Antimagick will broker a temporary exchange to another circle of all of our obelisks. We will pass the obelisks peacefully and without retribution, while continuing to protect them with our network of outposts for the duration of the contract. Obelisks can be released to be captured by the paying organization upon request, and no action will be taken to reclaim them until two full years have passed from the date of payment.

Every best faith effort will be taken by the Antimagick circle to maintain hold of our outposts and protect the obelisks during the contract period. We will defend the outposts if attacked, invest our generator essence into chargebombs should outposts be taken, and then place them back in defense of your obelisks once control is re-established.

Whether you are from magick wishing to gain Obelisk Research 5 to unlock Aryana Attunement, or Demonic just hoping to get Nature Attunement 4 to open up the possibility of Explosives 5 - this is an opportunity that you can hardly pass up.

Private investors wishing to purchase obelisks on behalf of their circle are welcome to do so. Groups of investors wishing to pool their resources are equally welcome to contact me, but only the primary contact that pays the gold will have any control over the transfer of obelisks.
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Comments

  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We're also selling obscene amounts of veritum!
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • JuranJuran Member Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This isn't a genie we can put back in the bottle, which is the basis for the cost.

    Right now anti-magick has the ability to forestall someone else gaining access to the level 5 research abilities basically indefinitely. We are offering to permanently give up an advantage that we can never get back.
  • LixanLixan Member Posts: 78 ✭✭✭
    How much is for the party at the Shuk? Drinks inclusive? 
  • ZiatZiat Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    We can take your obelisk/outpost if demonic focuses on your control rather then ours :(

    The offer is extremely unattractive. 2 years for 5 million? 

    Which City/Council even has 5 million to spare for a few researches except Celidon? 
     

  • JuranJuran Member Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Every city has at least that much gold, though obviously for some groups of people it would be a bigger sacrifice than others.

    And it's hardly just the opportunity to hold Aryana that's on offer, it's the ability to unlock the top tiers of shard research. With 5 obelisks and Aryana, Celidon could easily unlock shard attune and never lack Aryana ever again.

    At the cost of a red shard, our members are now able to attune to the obelisk of Aryana and obtain its benefits, including the Attunement ones, for one hour. Syntax: SHARD ATTUNE ARYANA. Requirements: control the Aryana obelisk, Obelisk Research level 5, Aryana Attunement level 5 and Shard Usage level 9
    For those that haven't seen it, the majority of the rank 5 researches (that only AM has access to) are like this and give you obelisk access forever. Any organization or group of organizations could likely take a piece or two and hold for a time, but what I'm selling is our cooperation to take the entire pie.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is also shard combine, which provides unfettered access to red shards!
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ziat said:
    The offer is extremely unattractive. 2 years for 5 million? 

    Barring a massive shift in circle populations, this is basically the only way that another circle can really hope to land the L5 Obelisk Attunement/Research skills. 

    Even assuming that we built up the outpost infrastructure necessary to support a 5 Obelisk Attempt, we'd still have the fact that we just don't have enough boots on the ground to make a real push of it, because AM has class superiority, numerical superiority, and player superiority. 

    The only real danger here is that Juran may be replaced at some point and his successor might not adhere to the bargain. I doubt he'd intentionally go out of his way to burn bridges with organizations he'll be moving back to. Especially not for such small change. 

    After building up a decent backlog of shards, to rush the important skills, I would jump on this. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • OzreasOzreas Member, Beta Testers Posts: 235 ✭✭✭✭
    Juran decides to sell out the game's conflict systems. Khizan is in favor. Noone is surprised.
  • LalitanaLalitana Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    Ozreas said:
    Juran decides to sell out the game's conflict systems. Khizan is in favor. Noone is surprised.

    It strikes me as an odd proposition.

    But then, it can't be particularly good for said conflict system to be pretty much locked up by AM, with Magick in second and Demonic locked out.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The conflict system (obelisk) is a sham anyways - it mostly is a waiting game and a time zone comparison chart, not a system to drive fights.

    AM just has the superior coverage, with good people or mediocre people with a clutch of zerglings available at most hours of the day.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • JuranJuran Member Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm hardly against conflict, and have historically been one of the only people to take an active enough interest to actually organize obelisk fights, time outposts, and track the generator - but shard gathering requires gold and the effective 650 credits we'd get from one side 'catching up' on shard research for a month would be a worthwhile investment for both parties involved.
  • RagnarRagnar Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2013
    I don't understand this. Antioch hates Demonick, but is willing to trade with them? Makes no sense.

    The only thing that doesn't surprise me is that it's the same guy who started the Star Consortium.
  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    Juran is merely giving the other circles an option to actually progress in shard research. I see it as a slightly OOC thing, but for game balance's sake I am not against it at all. I can't imagine how boring it is as the other circles (I was bored as **** already even when we [AM] had 3 obelisks). 

    The same way that Samsung supplied parts for Apple, AM can feel free to do stuff with demonic/magick if they think the benefits outweigh the losses (and I would much rather let other circles have obelisks [shard research] and we get 5 million gold in the process).

    Only thing is trying to get people to uphold any potential agreement, though it's not too big of an issue in that aspect.
  • RagnarRagnar Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    Then you let the other side take them, but don't try and make a profit from it.

    They are two completely different things.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no problems with this because I am interested in fostering the ability for a second side in this game (since it can't really handle three by any stretch of the imagination anyways) to be able to participate in the 'military' side of things. Right now, Anti-Magick is in such a position that it is probably backbreaking (and unhealthy) for both other circles to try and endure. If that means temporarily shelving the antiquated 'zealot' RP, so be it - especially because mommy and daddy died anyways (read: the Gods), so Antioch grew up and found its own way in the world without needing gods to tell them what to hate and what to do. If there's one thing I really appreciate about the death of every divine being in Imperian, it is probably just that: Anti-Magick can get out of the typecast nonsense whose roleplay saddled the baggage of multiple administrators mucking around in what players should be deciding.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2013

    Ragnar said:
    Then you let the other side take them, but don't try and make a profit from it.

    They are two completely different things.
    Sorry for the double post, but honestly.. why willingly let them take them and look the other way when we can charge them and make a profit?

    EDIT: "We need gold. You need obelisks. We can make a deal here like civilized people." - Juran is ransoming a powerful combat advantage for gold we need to buy other things. If they don't want to take a golden opportunity, we could just declare Antioch and Ithaqua the winners of Imperian and wait for Imperian 2: Electric Boogaloo in 5 years.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, I'd rather gamble on this highlighting the issue with the systems involved and force some sort of action that way than pay it.  But that's mostly just me being stubborn. 

    On the plus side, you got Celidon that is rolling in gold potentially interested so it works out okay.


  • KiraKira Member Posts: 13
    Honestly, the only issue I have with it is mostly from a roleplay standpoint: Anti-magick? Are we actually anti anything anymore? I forget. Juran's probably getting ready to jump ship again.

    As far as it goes, there were probably fifteen better ways to do this, but I'll settle for reiterating a few:

    1. Just be like, "Hey, team, this is expensive. We don't need four obelisks. Let's reel it back some."
    2. Talk to the allies you were "working closely with" a little at all. Maybe say, "Hey, you haven't been paying for things because I haven't asked. So, we're going to get rid of an obelisk or three. Maybe only defend obelisk x. Savvy?"
    3. Talk to the allies you were "working closely with" at all. Maybe say something like, "I want to profit off of benefiting magick and/or demonic for a reason that is, on an OOC level, sound." Then, we could responding with sullen and surly fervor, "No. We don't want to be a part of that." And then a dialogue is opened where we eventually go, "Fine, Juran, do whatever you want, no one cares."
    4. Play the game from a roleplay standpoint (magick bad) and not a player standpoint (How can I best do the administrations job?).

    But, yeah, all in all, opening up the obelisks is a fine idea. It just should never have been brought up how it was. That was pretty lame for everyone involved. Now, to resume ignoring the forums for another year or three.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2013

    Kira said:
    Honestly, the only issue I have with it is mostly from a roleplay standpoint: Anti-magick? Are we actually anti anything anymore? I forget. Juran's probably getting ready to jump ship again.

    Selling the obelisks to other circles does not immediately invalidate the foundation of the city or council's roleplay. To believe as such is to want to sequester each circle from one another and play separate games who just so happen to share the same server - and when they cross each other's paths, it is only violent and button-mashy.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • KiraKira Member Posts: 13
      Sarrius said:
    Selling the obelisks to other circles does not immediately invalidate the foundation of the city or council's roleplay. To believe as such is to want to sequester each circle from one another and play separate games who just so happen to share the same server - and when they cross each other's paths, it is only violent and button-mashy.
    Honestly, I'm not saying it invalidated the anti-magick roleplay, I'm just saying that it's dumb and -bad- at being anti-. It's rather sort of supporting magick in a very obvious way.

    We shouldn't be sequestering ourselves. As AM, we should be punching/converting/diminishing the 'enemy'. Not benefiting. However, say you put that all aside.

    Weren't we still blaming Khizan and those types for the [start of the] whole Gods dying and crap? From a roleplay standpoint, shouldn't everyone in AM be going, "Well, hey. Magick turned out to be bad, just like we've always thought. Curse that Khizan. Ruuuuue." Could just be me, though. I do enjoy being mad at Khizan.
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    That we have reached this point of 'haha, we have 'em, fork over if you ever wish to see something more' just highlight the problems with the whole system.

    It is a good thing that the other conflict system, aspects, does work as inten... ohwait.

    Mena wouldn't mind jumping over this, since when I as a demoner would reject an advantage? Heck, Mena had a similar agreement with Dias in the past.
  • JuranJuran Member Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shop keepers in Caanae sell things to Demoners basically every day. It's hardly against my scruples to take advantage of the situation that we find ourselves in if there's a profit to be had and no risk to our security or well-being.

    Consider the following: The tournament is coming, and now is a very important time to be finalizing plans for shard research - a smart city is going to double down now to stay competitive against AM in the events this year. I am offering to give up that advantage, an advantage we have held for almost an entire real year already, for gold to re-invest into our own research. It isn't 'out of character', Juran has been making decisions like this for his entire life.
  • KiraKira Member Posts: 13
    I've not called it out of character. Just in poor taste!
  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think everyone in AM has to play the crazy-zealous-I-hate-everyone-else RP that some do. I don't find it against RP to broker deals where appropriate. Also I don't think that's an "OOC reason" to profit off of magick/demonic. Sure there are (bigger) OOC reasons than IC, but there is still an IC reason as Juran pointed out.

    Now if anything, maybe Ithaqua and Antioch can kill each other over it and it'll be fun! :D
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yah, intercircle conflict. Riveting.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”

  • ZiatZiat Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    Khizan said:
    Barring a massive shift in circle populations, this is basically the only way that another circle can really hope to land the L5 Obelisk Attunement/Research skills. 

    Even assuming that we built up the outpost infrastructure necessary to support a 5 Obelisk Attempt, we'd still have the fact that we just don't have enough boots on the ground to make a real push of it, because AM has class superiority, numerical superiority, and player superiority. 

    There is a way to land it and not pay for it. Superiority doesn't last forever. Eventually people in AM will get bored and hop/go inactive. Even if they don't, we can still take it -if- demonic puts some pressure on AM as well. I was surprised they attacked nature over something like truesight (It is not protected by an outpost) when they had huge number of capable combatants around at that time.

    Plus, obelisk attacking requires energy, which requires time to build up. AM has four obelisk and about 4 outposts (Not sure on the exact number of outposts). They have to pay a really high maintenance cost. About 128K to 150K. That's like 60 to 100k energy saved per month. Chargebomb takes 800k, so assuming they don't have any insanely awesome shard skill that gives them a big boost on energy, it should take them 7-8 months to regain enough energy to attack. 

    The reason why AM dominates obelisk right now is because people don't like participating in obelisk battles. AM easily took control of obelisk and outposts, not having to worry about energy because their was no comeback and that's mostly because of lack of numbers. Basically, if we go slowly and start conquering outposts/obelisk with demonic putting pressure as well, there is no way AM can continue to keep them. 

    Its been done in the past, with magick actually when we had Aryana for a really long time. They succeeded in taking it and that's how it has went after that. 


    Selthis said:
    Honestly, I'd rather gamble on this highlighting the issue with the systems involved and force some sort of action that way than pay it.  But that's mostly just me being stubborn. 

    On the plus side, you got Celidon that is rolling in gold potentially interested so it works out okay.


    Celidon won't get it. No one should get it. 
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    System is rewarding, but boring. Some people got over it and got the obelisks.

    Conclusion: System is working as intended.
  • ZiatZiat Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    The only thing that got me thinking was the upcoming tourney advantage, but then again... how big will be the advantage? 

    Sect rituals seem like a bigger advantage overall.

     
  • KiraKira Member Posts: 13

     

    Bathan said:
    Yah, intercircle conflict. Riveting.


    The thing that I find interesting is I said. "So... what?" and got the reply, "YOU DON'T HELP AT ALL WE'RE NOT GIVING YOU MONEY," from Juran. So I said, "Well, the Council as  whole doesn't support this. We'd appreciate it if you'd rescind the offer." "YOU DON'T HELP I DO WHAT I WANT. LATER YOU CAN HAVE CHOICE MAYBE IF I FEEL LIKE IT." "We don't really care what you want to do, we're just not going to help." "I'M NOT REPLYING TO YOU. YOU DON'T HELP." "No one has ever asked what we want to research or if we could help since my being Wildgraf. We can help monetarily and I'm interested in seeing what's available." *silence*

    Well. That was mature.

    Also, was this talked about in-game at all, ever? Because the only people willing to say it was ever address in-game is.. well, Azefel. Just Azefel.

    Not that I mind, but team Juran seems to think I am mad, concerned, or in any way worried about this nonsense. No. I just want it to be handled better, honestly. I don't really care what Juran does and have long since learned that it's out of my ability to influence him--or, indeed, to request polite behavior.

  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭✭
    Juran is like Imperian's version of a scumbag CEO. 
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