If you didn't want to deal with you you could have (and did for a while) use the age-old, tried-and-tested method of closing the city/council gate!
We close the council gate because some of us really don't feel like comparing e-peens by staying on Imperian throughout class and 24/7. I'm sorry, but as Ahkan's mentioned, raiding's only fun for a little bit, then it becomes a few people waving their dicks around and thrusting their chests out saying how amazing they are while the rest of us want to get on with our lives.
No one wants to negotiate. Why? Because if we say, hey guys, this isn't really fun, it's really getting kind of stupid, can we please stop, then you have everyone laughing and calling us pansies and losers and the like when it's simply that we want to do something else in the game without being attacked all the time. People hate negotiating because it feels like losing even if it isn't, especially when people will then come around teasing and taunting like schoolboys about this or that.
I'm fine with conflict. I enjoy it. But this whole "war" notion? It's ridiculous. I can go fight you all I want, so can Risca and Ziat and whoever else likes this stuff, but to try and force us to fight by dragging other people who don't want to do it into it? Claim all the RP you want, but from an OOC perspective it's very... Offputting.
We have no conflict system in place. If we had a clear defined conflict system that defined wins and loses, like obelisks, and a clear point of stopping, I would be okay with this. What we have now, on the other hand, is a player-defined system which is based on who can log in from work/class the most to harass and make the other city's life unfun. We talk about morale in "war", but what morale comes down to is really "How can I make this game not fun to play for an entire 1/6-1/3 of the population, so much so that they won't want to log in?"
I was speaking about war in game and caught myself doing this. How can I make the game miserable for other people? I don't think that's how we should conduct wars, at all. At a certain point we're just being bullies and spiteful and carrying it on way more than it should've gone. This entire "war" came about because of an obelisk fight, and while I don't want to say who started and didn't start it, it's dragging on far longer than it should be. An obelisk fight that turned into a long, fun monolith/shardfall fight shouldn't be lasting weeks of monotonous drudgery and literal "I need to stay awake until 4AM until the other guy can cover my guard shift" things.
Let's be adults here. I can make war plans, we've beaten you in fights, you've beaten us in fights. There's no way to say who's going to "win" the war besides how large we can puff our own egos, and while a couple years ago I would've been happy to do that, I've gotten older. If you guys really need the affirmation of a win, I'll negotiate with you guys and you can take some of my gold so we can cease hostilities, but a new quarter's coming up. Midterms are coming, finals are coming. Work is getting busy for many people as we come into spring. I'm sure Celidon's not the only ones who needs to worry about life in general.
This entire thing started because neither side wanted to admit their losses. It escalated further and further to prove your masculinity or ego or pride or whatever. But honestly, I think we've both done it enough. We're men now. Awesome. Let's stop planning to make the game not fun for more than half the game's population.
This can be all solved if we both simply stop attacking each other. No words, just inter-personal conflicts that can be resolved with duels and fights like Septus and I like to do. Easy. Simple. No loss of face or pride. Can we do that?
I've enjoyed the number of fights that's happened recently as a by product of this war. The shardfall and monolith battles have been extremely fun to be in, especially the mono's since they've even had their flairs of 1v1's(Thanks @Gurn!) in them. I've only raided in this war like twice...and both times it was basically lets imbibe this totem until people decide to attack us.
And we're not going to, because of the reasons I stated. I'm not going to continue this epeen waving contest. We're going to run defence as long as we have to until you feel you've stroked your ego enough.
Nature of the beast here. There are a group of people who play Imperian solely to 'raid' and PvP and ANYTIME that's not happening the game sucks/boring/please make something happen. It's not a huge number but the demographic does exist. Right now, those people are having their good time until it's over and they're forced to go back to behaving themselves.
‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
And we're not going to, because of the reasons I stated. I'm not going to continue this epeen waving contest. We're going to run defence as long as we have to until you feel you've stroked your ego enough.
We've had days of fighting. That's quite enough.
This isn't about egos or waving e-peens. That might have been the case when we were kids (and the fact that you would take the 'maturity high ground' is laughable), but now we're just a bunch of people playing this game looking for something to do. Ziat gave us the bite we were looking for, after we gave up trying to make demonic do it. Shardfalls provided almost a year of entertainment, but now we have them down to something of a science. The fights are brief, many participants die in a single round, and the scale of team combat is simply unrewarding, unfun, and truly just not interesting. The game has once again grown stale after the beautiful shine of new toys and systems (Shardfalls followed by one of IRE's biggest and most controversial events in history, followed by the cult system and the emergence of the entities) has worn off and we are looking for something to do to amuse ourselves. There is nothing to organically generate smaller scale conflict involving only a handful (or just a pair) of people, so we must resort to baiting the most hot-tempered individuals of opposing circles in to acting in a way that gives us the excuse to pick a fight with the organization as a whole.
Last page I said something about biting off more than one can chew. You don't see a problem with an incendiary comment like 'I am going to raid your city XYZ' coming from a city leader? Setting aside the OOC maturity schtick, that is a pretty tough thing to get over. Threats of war shouldn't be taken lightly, In Character. Not to mention - you picked a fight with a city or possibly even a circle that houses people with more 'endurance' for this kind of nonsense. Every death last night was genuinely welcome, because it meant something was going on. Imperian has once again grown stale, because shardfalls are routine clockwork. This breaks that monotony, giving me a shot at one on one ( @Ziat , thank you for that, sorry for Septus busting in at the last moment) and some smaller scale team fighting that is a LOT more fun than the BrainfreezeHeadExplosionDSLFest that is every shardfall fight ever.
We can discuss the 'mature RP perspective' all you want, but that sort of argument doesn't really hold any water with the actions we have been going about. We haven't tried to grief or kill any non-combatants and we've kept ourselves strictly to participants (who I hope have not been coerced or forced) - we have 'sieged' (if you could call it that) the gates a total of maybe thrice. I think we have invaded your council a grand total number of times I can count on a single hand, strictly to kill war participants. This has mostly boiled down to either us baiting you by killing a totem outside your city limits, going to take our monoliths, or bashing 'seemingly' alone. As I told Ellen, it is genuinely your choice if you bite down on the hook, and most of your combatants seem to do so with the zeal of a suicidal trout.
What concerns me the greatest, @Gurn, is that you seem to think that days of fighting is 'quite enough'. Why is it that you want to call an end to a 'war' that really just boils down to us having slugfests and us destroying some totems whose cost is a single droplet of water in the vast Atlantic Ocean? I mean, what else is going on in this game? Especially in Celidon, of all places? Cult RP can be done inside your council. You can bash in your sewers. You can craft and write anywhere. I fail to see how this is truly disruptive to anybody but the people who opted in, who could easily opt out if they merely cease participating.
If you want what you seem to perceive as childishness to end, the price is quite likely your pride and some gold. I am having more fun than I've had in Imperian since I began the Hunt cult, and it is probably because I've missed the kind of frequency of combat we used to have years ago. For all my real life responsibilities (jobs, a full semester of college, doing things besides playing this game, etc), I am finding the time to enjoy and engage in this 'war'.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
If you want what you seem to perceive as childishness to end, the price is quite likely your pride and some gold. I am having more fun than I've had in Imperian since I began the Hunt cult, and it is probably because I've missed the kind of frequency of combat we used to have years ago. For all my real life responsibilities (jobs, a full semester of college, doing things besides playing this game, etc), I am finding the time to enjoy and engage in this 'war'.
That's the thing. You are ready to fight. You welcome deaths. That's great. How do we stop you? We have to literally win so much that even you won't welcome deaths and fighting anymore.
What does that mean for everyone else? What does that mean for the mass majority of people in Antioch, in Celidon? I've fought plenty of wars, I can stay up. I'm not talking about just me, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about everyone else. To wage a "war" means to bring everyone else in it. You claim you're just imbibing totems, and you're causing 'fun', but that's only for a very small percentage of the population. To win is to make everyone on the other side hate playing the game for dying so much.
I'm not thinking about you or me. I'm thinking about everyone else in Antioch and Celidon who's going to be tired of not being able to go outside. I'm talking about the people like Mercer who want no part in the war, but who you threaten with "never, EVER leave your towne or city" for moving guards.
We can have plenty of slugfests over monoliths and shardfalls and beyond that without anyone else being involved. What bothers me is the way you and Juran want to push it near and into the council and cities. What bothers me is this notion of "me, I only care about when I'm having fun" instead of thinking about the rest of the population.
You can point your finger at Ziat all you want, but he's one in five Advisors, and not the Emeris. You can claim it as the reason, but really, you're using it as an excuse to have your 'fun'.
Come fight people one on one. I fight @Darin, @Septus in 1v1s, and we also had lots of fun fighting over monoliths for no reason and at the spring. That was great. I enjoy that, the conflicts generated from that are awesome. Once more, it's when you force other people into it for your own fun that bother me.
Yes, I welcome the deaths, because I am one of the people who willingly participates in this. Those that do not, do not participate and give you no reason to attack them. It is pretty simple logic. We've kept a pretty good eye out for the difference between oblivious non-combatants joining in and actual people with some level of combative stake. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at with this whole 'What about everybody else?!' schtick. This isn't '06-'07 Imperian. Cities are not blockaded and starved out, forcing newbies and veterans alike to log off until it all ends. We are smarter than that. The rules are tighter than that. Any perceived threat to people who have yet to entangle themselves in this conflict is an illusion purely fashioned by your council leadership exaggerating what horrible, egotistical people we are in and out of the game. You are trapped in this sort of 'blast from the past' mindset where you are reacting, in an entirely sensationalist manner, to the fact that all we are doing is putting a label on picking a fight with the people known to PK in your council. I am so absolutely blown away and confused by this - we are six or seven years removed from the level of brutality we used to all engage in, in regards to how 'warfare' is waged in any Iron Realm.
You seem to be watching a completely different game than I am, because I've stayed pretty far removed from ganking non-combatants. The extent of my killing 'non-comms' boils down to killing Mercer for something completely removed from this conflict between Celidon and Antioch. That isn't your business, isn't the fault of this war (I'd have broken in to Iobelia and Praetoris' house anyways to provoke somebody in to coming to oust me), and doesn't really have any actual bearing on this conversation. You don't need to tell me that I am selfish - years of living and being myself generally makes me realize that when it comes to my own enjoyment, I am selfish and self-centered to a certain extent, and that extent falls quite far away from 'will involve completely innocent bystanders for own amusement'. Also, I'm not really pointing my finger at Ziat - I'm saying that he was the Sucker of the Week and fell for the bait. Since he threw himself on the hook, we aren't going to just let him get away with the line - we're going to reel that sucker in.
Also, for reference, it has been about 48 hours since the beginning of this 'war'. Come now, how much unforgivable, heinous atrocity can we truly have engaged in within 48 hours? How could we have truly offended you so much by imbibing some totems, killing your combatants (and getting killed, this is not a massacre by any means), and sitting outside your gates throwing harmless projectiles at you? Sans my killing somebody in another citizenship group entirely for reasons you have absolutely no place in, what have we really done?
Give this 'I'm so concerned with everybody else in my org who have yet to be hurt that COULD BE HURT MAYBE' schtick a rest. It is really killing the vibe.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I'm sitting in the council, minding my own business. I've already killed/been killed by all of you multiple times, and unless someone's seriously counting, that settles our kill debts. This is true for pretty much everyone at this point.
Then, you lot group up and go, "Hey, want to go cause some more trouble against people who really aren't fighting back or making aggressive attacks?"
Now I have to fight back because you're gathered outside the council and killing anyone who comes out into the Crest. When you get bored enough, you come into the council and start killing people there. If I come back to life, I can't go, guys, stop, you killed me four times, I'm done, you're going to keep killing me because I'm a 'threat'.
Same with everyone else who's fought just to protect the council. You use these small reasons to kill them, and when you're in the council, we have to fight back or be killed, which gives you more 'reasons' to kill us, more messages like the one you left Mercer.
So then, tell me, when does this end? We're not attacking. When do you get satisfied?
Second. You need to learn the lesson everyone else managed to learn. It goes something like this, "Eat your deaths and shut the hell up."
When you whine/cry/forum-rage it inspires the trollkin to be trolly. This makes them fight harder, last longer and discover new ways to make you squeal. (This sentence made me hot.) If you don't want to fight:
-Die and lose champion.
-DO NOT GET INVOLVED.
Yes, it may compromise your roleplay, but they're using your roleplay against you. Close the gates. Log off. Idle and watch Walking Dead on netflix, I don't care. They will run out of reasons to kill you. After that, they'll get bored and go back to theory crafting and convincing each other they're the tactical geniuses they read about in some fanfic. If you're not going to man up and endure, stop playing (their game).
^ All this...doesn't mean you're wrong. You're 100% right. They're being dicks. They're not going to stop being dicks. Your move.
I'm sitting in the council, minding my own business. I've already killed/been killed by all of you multiple times, and unless someone's seriously counting, that settles our kill debts. This is true for pretty much everyone at this point.
Then, you lot group up and go, "Hey, want to go cause some more trouble against people who really aren't fighting back or making aggressive attacks?"
Now I have to fight back because you're gathered outside the council and killing anyone who comes out into the Crest. When you get bored enough, you come into the council and start killing people there. If I come back to life, I can't go, guys, stop, you killed me four times, I'm done, you're going to keep killing me because I'm a 'threat'.
Same with everyone else who's fought just to protect the council. You use these small reasons to kill them, and when you're in the council, we have to fight back or be killed, which gives you more 'reasons' to kill us, more messages like the one you left Mercer.
So then, tell me, when does this end? We're not attacking. When do you get satisfied?
I would say that you are, once again, being entirely sensationalist. We don't sit at the Crest killing anybody that comes out. We do however kill anybody who comes out swinging. Sure, we're out there provoking you in to a fight - but we are by no means slaughtering people wholesale. If you come out to defend or you are a known fighter, you'd better bet we are stomping you out, but if, say, Macie walks up and runs up against my blocking the way in, I won't hit her. The difference between Macie and a fighter is that Macie is harmless and knows she is harmless. She isn't going to come in aggressively and give us a reason to hit her - and frankly, nobody wants a reason to hit her. She just wants to bash and hang out in Celidon. Chances are we'll find a way to let her in without being subject to you guys using Lure to kill us with guards. This goes for pretty much any non-combatant.
You don't HAVE to fight back. You don't HAVE to defend your council. Not every Celidonian is at risk if we break in. As I've said before, you are mired in this paranoia that may have been valid several years ago but no longer is. We are smarter than that.
Now you.. well, you, I don't know what to tell you. Surrender, I guess? You're a combatant. You just said one post up that you can handle a 'war'. I guess the best advice I've got for you is.. well.. 'deal with it'? Just don't escalate it.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Hey, I'm content to kill Juran and his horrible healing some more. Haven't fought Sarrius yet, but I've never been impressed by his combat and he can't be as good as Septus is. You want to come fight me, tell me to my face, don't make up a weak **** pretense for raiding.
Me man up? No, quite the opposite. You lot want to man up, come fight instead of pussyfooting around with other people and this 'raiding' crap. As you said before @Sarrius, this isn't 2007 anymore. You want to fight, you ask to fight. We fight and clash and then you can gloat if you win or be respectful and agree to duel more.
Open call to you lot. Your move.
EDIT: Also, No, I didn't come out swinging. I literally stepped out to look what was happening once and got killed for it. There was also some raiding in the council where people went to the Judgement Chambers were Macie was and killed her, and camped out there until guards were there.
But really, with all your swaggering and loling, when does something like this end? Tell me.
Its just a way to farm PK when you're bored. Like Sarrius said, they knew Ziat was hot tempered. They provoke him enough, he'll flip out and say something he shouldn't. Its not the first, it is not the last time he will.
So, you have two options. Suck it up and go out and fight repeatedly. Be badass about it . Go outside, be like "Who's first?" and then fight until you die. Challenge people to duels,make fun of them for not accepting. Relish what you got, but accept that sometimes its gonna have bad consequences. Hell, work out a deal with them involving a list of active combatants that are open whenever and if other people interfere they're free game too. Tell everyone about this list, make sure people know if they don't want to be involved they don't get involved. If they are being excessive, be nice and say "hey, can you chill a little bit with X?"
or
Stop fighting it. Just chill. afk in a siegeline. Make some simple redef triggers. It sucks to compromise your RP, but it works. Bore them to tears. Once you've spent a few days not saying anything or doing anything, go bashing. Farm that exp (stay out of demon's pass, you monster).
I've done both. I understand the compelling nature of what you perceive as "forced defense RP." You've done it for 2 days. Now imagine doing it for about 6-8 months.
You know your own limit. I know mine. You gotta do whats best for you.
Hey, I'm content to kill Juran and his horrible healing some more. Haven't fought Sarrius yet, but I've never been impressed by his combat and he can't be as good as Septus is. You want to come fight me, tell me to my face, don't make up a weak **** pretense for raiding.
Me man up? No, quite the opposite. You lot want to man up, come fight instead of pussyfooting around with other people and this 'raiding' crap. As you said before @Sarrius, this isn't 2007 anymore. You want to fight, you ask to fight. We fight and clash and then you can gloat if you win or be respectful and agree to duel more.
Open call to you lot. Your move.
EDIT: Also, No, I didn't come out swinging. I literally stepped out to look what was happening once and got killed for it. There was also some raiding in the council where people went to the Judgement Chambers were Macie was and killed her, and camped out there until guards were there.
But really, with all your swaggering and loling, when does something like this end? Tell me.
See, this was a dumb post to make. Don't fall for the Ziat trap.
I haven't attacked anyone that hasn't chosen to be involved, and the people that I've attacked later for participation outside of Celidon have all chosen to attack me outside of Celidon. If someone attacks me while I'm raiding, that kill doesn't 'count' because they're just defending their city. If someone attacks me in the forest, or tracks on top of me over a monolith, they're involved until I return the favor.
The difference between claiming those bounties that we added during the outpost fight and this 'war' is that now we're just looking a little harder for fights and for people to slip up.
I'm sitting at the spring. I'm here to 1v1 people until they've had their fill. I'm going to fight repeatedly, as you said, until they're done. I'm just not dragging other people into it.
See, this isn't too bad. I do need to figure out why my queue sat at 'calotropis' for 6 flicks, but that's part of the fun.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
See, this is what I want. I want people to just bloody ask to fight. If you want to fight, I'm up for it. Risca would be up for it. Ziat would be up for it. Ellen would be up for it.
I mean, I don't think someone like Therian would be up for it, but, that's basically the point. Don't drag other people who don't want to be part of it into it. By going to the council and declaring it as a 'war', you've set the mindset for most regular citizens that they have to fight.
Also, as far as the calotropis thing goes... I'd have to say maybe it's because I was using might/fitness whenever I got that stuck?
See, this is what I want. I want people to just bloody ask to fight. If you want to fight, I'm up for it. Risca would be up for it. Ziat would be up for it. Ellen would be up for it.
I mean, I don't think someone like Therian would be up for it, but, that's basically the point. Don't drag other people who don't want to be part of it into it. By going to the council and declaring it as a 'war', you've set the mindset for most regular citizens that they have to fight.
Also, as far as the calotropis thing goes... I'd have to say maybe it's because I was using might/fitness whenever I got that stuck?
I keep forgetting that we let Hunters keep Might in beta. That is quite likely why.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I moradeim bypassed to Macie at the Judgement Chambers, brought a couple other people in with me, we specifically said on ring to tell everyone not to hit Macie, we got Ziat, then we left (and by then Macie had already did that thing where they jump into the ground and do whatever).
Though now that I looked at Macie's DEATHS, maybe Aros was being dumb when I wasn't around But as far as I know after that first incident at the chambers, Ziat (or someone else) put guards there and we (when I was on anyway) never went back.
edit: Aros claims it was outside Celidon and she was actively fighting, so, again, nothing happens until they actively get involved.
You guys have an apartment complex? So THAT'S how you have the key!
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
As security head, I have a simple rule: If invaders get into your house somehow, you've got to give me a key to that house. I'll never use it to barge in(cause I totally do not want to see what you're doing in there), but once you turn your house into Juran's Fun Time Raiding Castle, you've got to give me a key to the drawbridge.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Comments
Overall I'd say that everything has worked out fairly well. Ziat hasn't raided yet, which I'm still looking forward to.
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
Last page I said something about biting off more than one can chew. You don't see a problem with an incendiary comment like 'I am going to raid your city XYZ' coming from a city leader? Setting aside the OOC maturity schtick, that is a pretty tough thing to get over. Threats of war shouldn't be taken lightly, In Character. Not to mention - you picked a fight with a city or possibly even a circle that houses people with more 'endurance' for this kind of nonsense. Every death last night was genuinely welcome, because it meant something was going on. Imperian has once again grown stale, because shardfalls are routine clockwork. This breaks that monotony, giving me a shot at one on one ( @Ziat , thank you for that, sorry for Septus busting in at the last moment) and some smaller scale team fighting that is a LOT more fun than the BrainfreezeHeadExplosionDSLFest that is every shardfall fight ever.
We can discuss the 'mature RP perspective' all you want, but that sort of argument doesn't really hold any water with the actions we have been going about. We haven't tried to grief or kill any non-combatants and we've kept ourselves strictly to participants (who I hope have not been coerced or forced) - we have 'sieged' (if you could call it that) the gates a total of maybe thrice. I think we have invaded your council a grand total number of times I can count on a single hand, strictly to kill war participants. This has mostly boiled down to either us baiting you by killing a totem outside your city limits, going to take our monoliths, or bashing 'seemingly' alone. As I told Ellen, it is genuinely your choice if you bite down on the hook, and most of your combatants seem to do so with the zeal of a suicidal trout.
What concerns me the greatest, @Gurn, is that you seem to think that days of fighting is 'quite enough'. Why is it that you want to call an end to a 'war' that really just boils down to us having slugfests and us destroying some totems whose cost is a single droplet of water in the vast Atlantic Ocean? I mean, what else is going on in this game? Especially in Celidon, of all places? Cult RP can be done inside your council. You can bash in your sewers. You can craft and write anywhere. I fail to see how this is truly disruptive to anybody but the people who opted in, who could easily opt out if they merely cease participating.
If you want what you seem to perceive as childishness to end, the price is quite likely your pride and some gold. I am having more fun than I've had in Imperian since I began the Hunt cult, and it is probably because I've missed the kind of frequency of combat we used to have years ago. For all my real life responsibilities (jobs, a full semester of college, doing things besides playing this game, etc), I am finding the time to enjoy and engage in this 'war'.
If you want what you seem to perceive as childishness to end, the price is quite likely your pride and some gold. I am having more fun than I've had in Imperian since I began the Hunt cult, and it is probably because I've missed the kind of frequency of combat we used to have years ago. For all my real life responsibilities (jobs, a full semester of college, doing things besides playing this game, etc), I am finding the time to enjoy and engage in this 'war'.
That's the thing. You are ready to fight. You welcome deaths. That's great. How do we stop you? We have to literally win so much that even you won't welcome deaths and fighting anymore.
You both like pizza.
You seem to be watching a completely different game than I am, because I've stayed pretty far removed from ganking non-combatants. The extent of my killing 'non-comms' boils down to killing Mercer for something completely removed from this conflict between Celidon and Antioch. That isn't your business, isn't the fault of this war (I'd have broken in to Iobelia and Praetoris' house anyways to provoke somebody in to coming to oust me), and doesn't really have any actual bearing on this conversation. You don't need to tell me that I am selfish - years of living and being myself generally makes me realize that when it comes to my own enjoyment, I am selfish and self-centered to a certain extent, and that extent falls quite far away from 'will involve completely innocent bystanders for own amusement'. Also, I'm not really pointing my finger at Ziat - I'm saying that he was the Sucker of the Week and fell for the bait. Since he threw himself on the hook, we aren't going to just let him get away with the line - we're going to reel that sucker in.
Also, for reference, it has been about 48 hours since the beginning of this 'war'. Come now, how much unforgivable, heinous atrocity can we truly have engaged in within 48 hours? How could we have truly offended you so much by imbibing some totems, killing your combatants (and getting killed, this is not a massacre by any means), and sitting outside your gates throwing harmless projectiles at you? Sans my killing somebody in another citizenship group entirely for reasons you have absolutely no place in, what have we really done?
Give this 'I'm so concerned with everybody else in my org who have yet to be hurt that COULD BE HURT MAYBE' schtick a rest. It is really killing the vibe.
Yes, it may compromise your roleplay, but they're using your roleplay against you. Close the gates. Log off. Idle and watch Walking Dead on netflix, I don't care. They will run out of reasons to kill you. After that, they'll get bored and go back to theory crafting and convincing each other they're the tactical geniuses they read about in some fanfic. If you're not going to man up and endure, stop playing (their game).
^ All this...doesn't mean you're wrong. You're 100% right. They're being dicks. They're not going to stop being dicks. Your move.
You don't HAVE to fight back. You don't HAVE to defend your council. Not every Celidonian is at risk if we break in. As I've said before, you are mired in this paranoia that may have been valid several years ago but no longer is. We are smarter than that.
Now you.. well, you, I don't know what to tell you. Surrender, I guess? You're a combatant. You just said one post up that you can handle a 'war'. I guess the best advice I've got for you is.. well.. 'deal with it'? Just don't escalate it.
So, you have two options. Suck it up and go out and fight repeatedly. Be badass about it . Go outside, be like "Who's first?" and then fight until you die. Challenge people to duels,make fun of them for not accepting. Relish what you got, but accept that sometimes its gonna have bad consequences. Hell, work out a deal with them involving a list of active combatants that are open whenever and if other people interfere they're free game too. Tell everyone about this list, make sure people know if they don't want to be involved they don't get involved. If they are being excessive, be nice and say "hey, can you chill a little bit with X?"
or
Stop fighting it. Just chill. afk in a siegeline. Make some simple redef triggers. It sucks to compromise your RP, but it works. Bore them to tears. Once you've spent a few days not saying anything or doing anything, go bashing. Farm that exp (stay out of demon's pass, you monster).
I've done both. I understand the compelling nature of what you perceive as "forced defense RP." You've done it for 2 days. Now imagine doing it for about 6-8 months.
You know your own limit. I know mine. You gotta do whats best for you.
I haven't attacked anyone that hasn't chosen to be involved, and the people that I've attacked later for participation outside of Celidon have all chosen to attack me outside of Celidon. If someone attacks me while I'm raiding, that kill doesn't 'count' because they're just defending their city. If someone attacks me in the forest, or tracks on top of me over a monolith, they're involved until I return the favor.
The difference between claiming those bounties that we added during the outpost fight and this 'war' is that now we're just looking a little harder for fights and for people to slip up.
See, this isn't too bad. I do need to figure out why my queue sat at 'calotropis' for 6 flicks, but that's part of the fun.
(I'd have broken in to Iobelia and Praetoris' house anyways to provoke somebody in to coming to oust me
Actually, you broke into a house owned by me
It's the apartement complex place of the towne, which is owned by the towne head
As security head, I have a simple rule: If invaders get into your house somehow, you've got to give me a key to that house. I'll never use it to barge in(cause I totally do not want to see what you're doing in there), but once you turn your house into Juran's Fun Time Raiding Castle, you've got to give me a key to the drawbridge.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."