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Champions

Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
edited October 2012 in New Ideas
While this is not a new idea, we are looking for what people think about Champions. I am also looking for any ideas you may have to make them cooler. We will be changing how you become a champion (soon). And we would like to tweak them to be a bit more fun. Maybe they do not need a tweaking though. At any rate, post your thoughts and ideas here and if I like something we will add it!
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Comments

  • DelrayneDelrayne Member Posts: 457 ✭✭✭
    Champions could definitely be used to bring focus back to 1v1 combat outside of FreeForAlls. However, I would hope that would just be one side of the coin with Champions as many possibilities can and should be brought with them. Don't get me wrong group fights can be fun, but they can also be very predictable on who is going to win, based on the professions involved. Show some love towards 1v1 when you take this particular idea down the rabbit hole. Perhaps a mini monthly or quarterly tournament for all Champions to compete in to determine the Champion of Champions.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2012

    One thing about Champions irks me off of the top of my head.

    They played a large role in the event, so there were some people who might not otherwise be interested in an "I occasionally become free PK" system who felt somewhat compelled to do it anyways.  A way to drop Champion status, for a reasonable cost, would be a good idea, imo. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think I like Champions, for the most part. It brings back some of the wild west feel of early Achaea/Imperian that a lot of people miss. I think it's a good concept. I'm worried that it's going to boil down to scenarios where you have people who are good at 1 on 1 getting poached by people who aren't but team. You guys know who I'm talking about. I don't see a way to balance this, but it's going to suck when you achieve champion and die to no-name-no-champ1, no-name-no-champ2 and artibus3.

    Anyone remember Champions/Assassins system in Achaea? People would Dias the crap out of that.

    -Become Champion
    -rararararar, fight, talk smack, kill, kill, kill
    -die, die, die, die
    -Stop being a Champion. YOU CAN'T GET RETRIBUTION BECAUSE I AM NOT A CHAMPION


    -More perks to champion than xp bonus?
  • ApolocApoloc Member Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    I'd like a special message with it too, like entrance exit.  Maybe surrounded by black flames so and so derps off to the east.  Something real cool like that
    image

  • JuranJuran Member Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The previous system required a PvE focus for a PvE bonus and what was largely a PvP status. I'm certain you'll rework those specifics in order to make them permanent.
  • KariKari Member Posts: 61 ✭✭✭
    Ya, if you want open PK on Champions, I think it could be something along the lines of "You can pvp to Champion, but need valid reason for those kills. Those champions can be a different color, and once they hit champion they are open PK" where as the people who are grinding mobs shouldn't be open pk? Cause there are quite a few of us that are not Pkers and at first the whole open pk set me completely off of trying for Champion. I didn't start doing any of it till Champions could be sacrificed to help get the hammer, and the alliance basically put a blanket over Champions.
  • MercerMercer Member Posts: 220 ✭✭✭
    That's been my thing with Champion.  I don't mind the open PK of it,moslty.  It's just I get jumped seconds after I hit it, so I can' even enjoy it for a short time I have it.
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    Oooh.

    Like I briefly mentioned in the combat changes thread, I would like to see Champion being much easier to get. Preferably something you enter into, such as you take up the mantle of champion and reap double XP (or whatever other rewards you can think of) while of course being open PK.
  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    Kryss said:
    Oooh.

    Like I briefly mentioned in the combat changes thread, I would like to see Champion being much easier to get. Preferably something you enter into, such as you take up the mantle of champion and reap double XP (or whatever other rewards you can think of) while of course being open PK.
    This. Let's say you go to the temple and BECOME CHAMPION. Lasts 24 hours. You get double XP, but you're also open PK to other champions.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Champion should be a status you opt in to (near) permanently, a la the assassin 'order' in old Achaea. If possible, I would like to attach it to whatever ends up coming out of this post-Gods system. It seems like an appropriate replacement, considering it is the Age of Mortals - and you ARE a Champion of Mortalkind.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Right now for changes I am thinking this:
    1. You only lose champion status when killed by a champion (or a mob).
    2. Killing a champion will make you a champion (if you are already an apprentice)
    3. Significantly reduce the amount of grinding to get champion status.
    Thoughts?

  • MercerMercer Member Posts: 220 ✭✭✭

    On #1: yes yes yes, love that idea

    #2, not so much, unless #3 goes along with it.

  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes to all three points.
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like all of those, but again. The veil makes champions kind of stupid. Adanedhel rolls out, teams someone, rolls right back to some place I'll never find him. It really devalues the whole thing.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    Get rid of having to GRIND for Champion. Grinding isn't fun, that is why it is called grinding. If Champion is meant to be a PK mechanic, there is no purpose in attaching an arbitrary PvE entry requirement to it - we already have that, it is called 'being an Aspect'. It is nothing but an unnecessary gate to the status of Champion. Just make it an opt in process, like in my last post.

    EDIT: Oh, also, I agree with Bathan - a rare occurrence, but I do. Champions should have to forsake their veil benefit so that it is possible to find and kill them. To be honest, we also need something to encourage champions to fight each other, because as I see it, I would just score 1 kill on a champion or take the lead, then idle in the safest locations I can find until the turn of the prize period. Then rinse, repeat.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2012

    Sarrius said:
    Get rid of having to GRIND for Champion. Grinding isn't fun, that is why it is called grinding. If Champion is meant to be a PK mechanic, there is no purpose in attaching an arbitrary PvE entry requirement to it - we already have that, it is called 'being an Aspect'. It is nothing but an unnecessary gate to the status of Champion. Just make it an opt in process, like in my last post.

    I support this idea.

    Completely unrelatedly, if this is implemented, I can take, oh, several hundred dives before I worry about EXP, and my rates are very reasonable. 

    Edit: My point here is that there are completely reasonable reasons to have a 'cost' to getting Champion status back again if you want the rankings to mean anything more than "How much Dias willing to spend to win this one?"

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • ApolocApoloc Member Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    I'd like to see two different types of Champions, Pve and Pvp.  How they would differ I dont know.  But it would give PVE people a boost.

    Perhaps have PvP champs work like they do now, open PK and the points you suggested, while PvE champs sort of get more aggressive bashing, mobs hit harder, maybe you take more damage, and suddenly getting a high mob kill count means something other than you're a poopsocker.
    image

  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Apoloc said:
    I'd like to see two different types of Champions, Pve and Pvp.  How they would differ I dont know.  But it would give PVE people a boost.

    Perhaps have PvP champs work like they do now, open PK and the points you suggested, while PvE champs sort of get more aggressive bashing, mobs hit harder, maybe you take more damage, and suddenly getting a high mob kill count means something other than you're a poopsocker.
    So PvE Champions suffer the possibility of being attacked by Horde or Undead war parties - who could be coded to be intelligent squads of powerful mobiles? That would be WAY badass.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    Champions should only be free PK to other champions, IMO. Normal PK rules apply for champion vs nonchampion.
  • OhmOhm Member Posts: 333 ✭✭✭
    Sarrius said:
    Apoloc said:
    I'd like to see two different types of Champions, Pve and Pvp.  How they would differ I dont know.  But it would give PVE people a boost.

    Perhaps have PvP champs work like they do now, open PK and the points you suggested, while PvE champs sort of get more aggressive bashing, mobs hit harder, maybe you take more damage, and suddenly getting a high mob kill count means something other than you're a poopsocker.
    So PvE Champions suffer the possibility of being attacked by Horde or Undead war parties - who could be coded to be intelligent squads of powerful mobiles? That would be WAY badass.

    Something to the effect of random assassins which jump you in Ariesh, only harder.
    image
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Okay, so this is what we are going to do.
    1. Reducing the bashing needed to get champion by 75%.
    2. You only lose champion status when killed by a champion or apprentice champion.
    3. Apprentice champions will instantly promote when killing a champion.
    4. No XP loss or gain when killing a champion. (Because a couple people will create a champion farm for XP)
    We are making a couple other changes to, but I will wait a few days until we detail those as they lead into some other events.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Probably going to stay away from PvE and PvP champions. It makes the system more diluted and we really want to make being a champion risky. Sending little mob assassins after you is a cool idea though.
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    Can enemy/ally/marked colours not overwrite the champion name colours? It's annoying to have to look at champion list all the time to confirm your enemies are still champions.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Bathan said:
    I'm guessing the veil suggestion is also not going to happen? I mean, I get that you don't want to nullify a 2000 CR artifact, but veils frankly nullify the whole system. Being unable to track or find a Champion because he bought immunity is incredibly frustrating.
    Yeah, I seriously considered it, but it was too hard to nullify it.
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nah, I get it. I honestly do. I appreciate the straight answer regardless. Let it never be said in the era of Jeremy that we did not get straight answers.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Kryss said:
    Can enemy/ally/marked colours not overwrite the champion name colours? It's annoying to have to look at champion list all the time to confirm your enemies are still champions.
    Hrm. I will have to look into that.
  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    Alternatively, colour code champion list by enemy/ally status.
  • ZiatZiat Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    Can we have the bosses remove from the temple please? With the changes to Champion, there will be a lot of frequent sacrificing and dealing with them is pure annoyance. They should run from the power of the hammer or something instead of leaning on a staff in the room where the hammer is. 
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