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Newbie Combatants
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Member Posts: 4 ✭
The first and probably most obvious difficulty with engaging in meaningful PvP is the 'entry barrier', or the 'buy in'. I bashed really hard my first few days and got to level 80 and mythical in my primary skill--but when PvP happens, it even still pretty much consists of hoping I don't get noticed and running away if I do. I can sneak in a few hits each engagement usually, but I don't feel they're really helpful or significant...I mean, it's been mentioned by senior players that I'd probably contribute more by spamming a web tattoo. I don't want to, because I'm trying to learn, and I don't feel I really gain any insight from doing that. I'm not really sure if there -is- a way to address this problem, and of course there's the obvious argument against doing so even if there was--a lower 'entry barrier' means people may not feel as compelled to buy credits, etc. That said, in my opinion, engaging people will always pay off way better. If 20 people bought 500 credits, that's more than 2 buying 2000 each, you know? I've always felt that inclusiveness is the #1 best thing any game can foster, and I'm having trouble finding that in Imperian.
Some possible ways to address this issue might include:
- Providing more ways for 'lower tier' people to compete amongst themselves.
- Providing some sort of bonus to lower tier people when competing in structured PvP--for example, skill or health bonuses based on might and artifact value while participating in the arena. I'm not sure how reasonable or viable this is.
- Providing 'special tasks' of some sort that are easier or even exclusive to lower tier people and that have a meaningful impact on things. For example, what if during obelisk battles, there was some sort of additional way to gain influence over them, like retrieving items from around the island and bringing them to the obelisk, or something similar? I don't really understand the mechanics enough to offer specific suggestions.
Another difficulty I've run into is retaliation--I understand, better than most, that actions have consequences and attacking results in being attacked back, but there have been a -few-, not many, but a few cases where I felt my character was singled out for those consequences simply by merit of being the easiest target. I understand that's not so much a problem with the game or with mechanics, but as one poignant example, I happened to be hunting in a place where someone from another faction died once, and that other person spent the next few hours chasing me from hunting zone to hunting zone. When I asked why, he said I stole his gold and decapitated his corpse--I pointed out that I don't even know decapitate and he started ignoring me. I tried asking my friends for help, and they came and killed him one of the times and I thought that would be the end of it, but then it somehow escalated to a big conflict between lots of people and even after that ended, that individual continued to pursue me. I feel like there's not really a lot I can do, as I understand I've been engaging in PvP, but I don't really enjoy feeling futile or helpless.
Some suggestions to help alleviate this might be:
- Some sort of mechanical retribution system that scales with relative might or artifact value--for example, JoeAspect the Walking Artifact attacks Newbie Sue, Newbie Sue can go to some place within so and so much time of the altercation and exact some sort of revenge, such as an NPC assassin, maybe even a short-duration disfavor, or some other plague upon JoeAspect. If JoeAspect then attacked MidbieJack the Tri-Trans, MidbieJack could go and pay so and so much gold or perhaps take on a lesser version of the vengeance to do the same as NewbieSue. If JoeAspect attacked SallyAspect, though, no dice! The vengeance mechanic wouldn't work because there was little disparity in 'value' between the two. Such a system would inherently need to be something JoeAspect couldn't then use as cause to attack Newbie Sue again--since it would only work at all if Newbie Sue had a good reason to start with! I understand we already have things like the guy who takes contracts, and the issue system, but in my opinion, a mechanic more like this would be more accessible and, more importantly, would make Newbie Sue feel like -she- was doing something about it, instead of crying for help.
The final major issue I've butted up against really hard is how group combat works. In almost every game I've ever played, group conflict is almost always the first exposure new players get. In Imperian, group combat is so...spammy. And I don't mean text-scrolling-fast spam, I mean...it feels like it utterly lacks any sort of structure, it's just a mass of people hitting one person and whoever has the most firepower wins. Granted, I don't have nearly as much experience with this as others do, but to me, this sort of system is really off-putting. It helps to highlight how ineffective us new people are, and we don't really learn much about -combat- from it, just about the 'win buttons'.
Some ways this might be addressed are:
- Adding some sort of malus to the 'zerg'. IE, if one person is being attacked by more than two people, attacks do less damage or have a chance to miss or to be resisted, and this effect scales upward with number of attackers--so six hitting one person would pretty much be shrugged off with a laugh. This is a huge change to the current system, I know, but I feel it wouldn't really have as much impact as it might seem at first. If two people can't kill a single target together, they probably should have picked a different target to work on! It also adds a new level of strategy to group conflict--do you pair your A-team with another A-team or NewbieWebBot? Do you pair your DamagePewPew with another damage or with ZomgAffsWat? One obvious protest to something like this would be that it would exclude newbies further--since they'd be as likely to hinder your group as not, you'd probably ask them to stay home! But, I don't feel that's true at all. On the contrary, in my experience, mechanics like this encourage senior players to educate newbies, not to exclude them. And that's a really good thing!
Those are the three major problems I've encountered as I'm coming into Imperian and attempting to engage in PvP. Again, keep in mind that I really don't know what I'm talking about or how mechanics work or what is or isn't effective...I'm just hoping some of these points might incite more meaningful thought or discussion than my own.
Comments
I'm all for systems of conflict for lower tier combatants where the big league can't interfere. That's why I've suggested time resetting tiered arena rankings for cosmetic rewards.
1. Vengeance Aspect system seems abusable by making a newbie, attacking someone, log into main, and hunting said person down to avenge so and so, along with other scenarios.
2. Having a group combat malus against a single individual would exclude newbies more, I agree. Also, this would cause higher tiered fighters who know how to defend and heal well much more viable than they already are.
3. Always have to assume the worst with people. They'll find a way.
You're beneficial ideas are great however, such as:
1. Entry level buyin and allowing some lower costs to artifacts that benefit combat. At a business standpoint, it's always great to have quantity when dealing with a larger gross income of people, especially since dropping $200 into one artifact is probably impossible for some people.
2. I do see potential in some form of mallus in group combat if it was managed well. It would definitely alleviate the pressure of 15v7 some days and force people to fight in more isolated sub-groups. If it could be managed, I could see an increase of participation.
3. We already have minor things like orcs raiding a city, the gypsy with a flea curse, and assassination things around Aetherius, but they're more indirect. It'd be great if you could possibly change the Eoggor quest in Dis and have him, at a price, find said select person who was last to kill you in a set time. He'd only attack if the person was 50% or more your might and would attack said individual The person would be given a chance to kill Eoggor like any other mob.
Again, I really like your ideas and hope you can build more onto this. I'm pretty much useless myself but put in enough effort to get by. Best of luck to you.
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
Honestly, that's modern Imperian combat. A sad progression of "I lose to this, I need this" has pushed a lot of classleads and issues to super power certain classes. This isn't going to be remedied any time soon, so you just have to learn target priority and hope to god the zerg don't target you first. The malus won't help much. You're still going to die because of game design. You're a low level, low statpack (for afflictions, bashing) and you're going to melt under the pressure of any mid+ warden, monk, druid, mage, wardancer, templar, outrider, and probably defiler. The malus won't help you very much, because even split dps from these classes is going to kill you. The malus just makes high end players who tank well, like me, nearly unkillable. AM will cry because this will be a deathblow to their zerg hivemind, but they're still going to get shredded by lack of situational awareness and die to affliction based teams, which is the opposite problem.
God, eoggor is equally a bad idea. Problem 1, anyone worth a damn can tank and kill eoggor (and the assassin quest). Problem 2, if you're going to be that petty, you're only going to incite Captain Griefbot to kill the crap out of you again. I kill Mathiaus. Eoggor kills me. who dead. Look, it's Mathiaus. I kill Mathiaus. Actually, you shouldn't listen to Mathiaus, he's setting you up to be a pk-reason generating bot.
-Don't talk back. If they say, lol you suck. Ignore it. It's best to avoid talking to pkers when they're 'in the mood.'
Y r u such a coward.
@Tag: you've actually been pretty annoying (that's good) in team fights. You seem to track affs somewhat which puts you a step up from most other knights out there. (This tends to mean you're also a priority target, which with your level and such I can see being a real pain.)
If someone is repeatedly picking on you because you're a low level, there's also the option of dropping someone reasonable on their side a message. Generally sensible people want new people to stick around (more people = more people to fight = more pk) and the optamist in me says will nip that nonsense in the bud if its brought to their attention. At the least, you'll likely see fewer people jumping to the apparently victimised individuals defence when they shout about being repeatedly teamed (certain things from yesterday make a lot more sense now).
Welcome to Imperian, hope you stick around!
The Avenger system in Lusternia never ends up being a positive contribution. It would be no different here.
- The only thing that's really wrong with this is that if it gives decent rewards it breed smurfs. The ToA, the big anniversary tournament every year, used to have brackets based by might. Who won the low tier bracket, though? A buddy of mine who's a solid fighter who wanted to start a new character and made a new character to curbstomp the newbie bracket and win all the prizes. Who took second in it? Me, on an alt I made specifically to help scum the tournament by teaming any possible opposition ensure he cleared a win. You don't really stand a chance against my artifacts and trans skills, no(unless you're a pro with an affliction class, but that's !newbie, anyways). But you really don't stand much more of a chance against my one-trans predator, either, sadly. Experience counts for a lot.
- The problem with giving bonuses for low might/artifacts is that you devalue high might/artifacts. The problem you seem to be having is that the baseline values for new characters are very low, which jumps you up way higher than normal on the kill priority. There are better ways to solve this.
- The problem with this is that if the tasks are exclusive to lower-tier people, then not having them poses a disadvantage. What do I do when my low-tier people grow out of the leagues? Just not participate until we get some more? And if I've got an awesome low-tier guy on my team, it may well end up being strategically advantageous for him to remain a lowbie as long as possible and thus able to handle those tasks. And once PK exp took him out of that area, it would be better for us if they rerolled a new alt to keep on stomping the low-tiers.
Myself, there's two main changes I'd like to see for lowbies. The first is doubling the health/mana gain per level, and capping the gain out at 50. Levels past 50 no longer give health, but you still get almost 200 free credits between L50 and L100, making them more than worth it but no longer mandatory-before-fighting. Second, I'd like to see a one-time-per-character lesson(or bound credits) pack at a vastly reduced price. Something in the ballpark of 2000 lessons for 20 bucks. Once you make that first purchase, it's a lot easier to justify future spending, and that's enough to give somebody a good foot in the door.The other problem with this is that if you don't make this exclusive to lowbies, you're just going to find highbies or groups doing the tasks, because there will be no point in sending a lowbie to do it when the other team can send Septus or Iluv or somebody to curbstomp it.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Why don't you just sort of mimic WoW, where getting to level 80 is a breeze and then start the crawl to 100 to hit hp cap. Or maybe they should also put the HP cap at 90.
Also: Reasons why pk gets stupid.
For lack of a better phrase, Zorbin is a crash helmet. Zorbin died bashing (because he dumb). He came from Dis howling at Tag, "You hath decapitate my body, typical demonic scum." Funny thing is, Tag -can't- decapitate. Zorbin then decides to demonstrate his feeble grasp of profanity. For the next 24hrs Zorbin lives to swear at Tag and try to kill him. This leads Zorbin to fighting in the Khandava forest, which rouses the toxic Lionas and Iluv the Avenger. Poor Zorbin dies. Unwilling to accept he done screwed up, Zorbin goes to kill Tag again. Much to Zorbin's surprise, the second verse was the same as the first. This time he squawks to Ageranu saying, "Omg, this kid Tag had me killed." Ageranu being the derp-hero runs to kill Tag while he was bashing. Meanwhile, Zorbin is in Dis firing the profanity cannon at Iluv, Lionas and Tag.
^ Welcome to Imperian
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
As you strike the final blow, a curved sabre breaks suddenly, damaged beyond repair.
HOLY COW is that annoying! I mean, okay, weapon damage/decay is a thing, that's all right. But man. No warning. No line saying it's getting low...and I mean, maybe if it didn't last for less than one six hour bashing session...but seriously. Gone for good, need a new one because you forgot to repair before going afk and didn't check before starting hunting again...gosh.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
So stupid...I wouldn't mind if it broke and was unusable until repaired, but just disappearing for good is really harsh...
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Ofc. 20 * 500 = 10,000. 2 * 2000 = 4,000.
But, theoretically yes. However, I'm rethinking that. IRE is a niche game, and its pay-for-perks model may be best fuelled by a captive population. As long as they hit the appropriate conversion rate, it -may- be that a 2 * 2,000 is much easier to achieve than a 8 * 500. After all, 'in for a penny, in for a pound.' It'd be interesting to see what their profitability distribution looks like ( Septus > Eldreth > scrubs Dinosaur -> Owl -> Potatoes )