Damage (without setup)

Mathiaus

So far, I've figured out that my dissonance, shaite, rubait, sketch damage lands me around 45 dps.

Iluv's quicken and incinerate do around 60 dps.

If the average Claymore user wields a higher level Claymore, they yield around 45-50 dps.

I'm just curious what dps other classes hold.

Ahkan

You're leaving out a lot of variables here.

-statpack

-artifacts (collar, sash, weapons)

-diadems

-current buffs (favours, truefavours, aspect favours)

-(summoner side) summoned demons

Also, you can't include incinerate in this thread if you're talking about 'without setup.'

Iniar

Clever, 15 intelligence, +1 bal

No summons

Resists:

Damage Type Armour Resists

Cutting 42% 17%

Blunt 29% 17%

Magickal 0% 25%

Fire 0% 33%

Cold 0% 25%

Poison 0% 33%

Asphyxiation 0% 25%

Electricity 0% 25%

Psychic 0% 25%

Quicken: 61 magickal, mental (raw 69); 2.70 eq, ~dps: 22.60

Combustion: 55 fire, mental (raw 69); 2.70 cast, ~dps: 20.37

Incinerate

Init:  55 fire, mental (raw 69); 3.70 cast, ~dps: 14.86

Tick: 39 fire, mental (raw 49); 2 seconds ticks, 15 taint cost, ~dps: +19.5 at 7.5 taint per second

===============

Summons:

Rixil +1 int

Hecate +10% damage

Damage Type Armour Resists

Cutting 42% 17%

Blunt 29% 17%

Magickal 0% 25%

Fire 0% 33%

Cold 0% 25%

Poison 0% 33%

Asphyxiation 0% 25%

Electricity 0% 25%

Psychic 0% 25%

Quicken:  70 magickal, mental (raw 69); 2.70 eq, ~dps: 25.93

Combustion:  63 fire, mental (raw 69); 2.70 cast, ~dps: 23.33

Incinerate

Init: 63 fire, mental (raw 69); 3.70 cast, ~dps: 17.03

Tick: 44 fire, mental (raw 49); 2 seconds ticks, 15 taint cost, ~dps: +22.0 at 7.5 taint per second

===============

L3 Collar 

L3 Sash 

Diadem

Resist Rings

Rixil +1

Hecate +10% damage

Damage Type Armour Resists

Cutting 42% 30%

Blunt 29% 30%

Magickal 0% 25%

Fire 0% 33%

Cold 0% 25%

Poison 0% 40%

Asphyxiation 0% 33%

Electricity 0% 33%

Psychic 0% 25%

Quicken:  116 magickal, mental (raw 84); 2.32 eq, ~dps: 50

Combustion:  104 fire, mental (raw 84); 2.32 cast, ~dps: 44.83

Incinerate

Init:  104 fire, mental (raw 84); 3.17 cast, ~dps: 32.81

Tick:  73 fire, mental (raw 59); 2 seconds ticks, 15 taint cost, ~dps: +36.5 at 7.5 taint per second

Credit cost: 1600 + 2500 + 850 = 4950

Magickal spells: +24.07 dps ~= 205 credits/+1 dps

Fire spells: +21.5 dps ~= 230 credits/+1 dps

Incinerate ticks: +14.5 dps ~= 341 credits/+1 dps

Bring facts.

Iniar

Let me break it down for you:

I go from a max 47.93 dps to 86.5 dps at 128 credits / +1 dps;

Realize that you can drop an unartifacted summoner's dps by 22 dps back to 26 dps, and it's almost free.

Realize that you can drop my dps by 36.5 dps back to 50 dps, and it's almost free;

36.5/86.5 * 4950 = 2089 credits

i.e. you can negate 2089 credits by spamming your free skill (0 credits)

Realize that summoner is demonic's only genuine damage class (Defiler sucks).

Iniar

Sorry I get really cheesed off when people complain about summoner damage. Will post more values for demonic classes later.

Azefel

there are a number of things that (seemingly) scale off max hp

Iniar

Needs a tldr;

All as clever;

Class |  Unartifacted |  L3s + Diadem  |

-----------------------------------------------------

Wytch | 24.3 | 34.3  |

Diab | 15.5 | 28.1  |

Assassin | ~ 31.9 | ~ 50.5  |

Defiler | ~ 35.2 | ~ 35.2  |

-----------------------------------------------------

Wytch

Clever, 15 int, +1 bal

Choke:  62 asphyxiation, mental (raw 70); 3.35 bal, ~dps: 18.51

Sowulu: 35 unblockable (raw 35); 3.20 eq, ~dps: 10.94, << internal cooldown of 4s >>

Max dps is choke + sowulu / 4s = 62 + 35 / 4s ~= 24.25 dps

-------------------

L3 Collar

L3 Sash

Diadem

Choke:  92 asphyxiation, mental (raw 84); 3.35 bal, ~dps: 27.54

Sowulu: 45 unblockable (raw 45); 2.75 eq, ~dps: 16.36, << internal cooldown of 4s >>

Max dps is choke + sowulu / 4s = 62 + 35 / 4s ~= 34.25 dps

===========

Diabolist

Clever, 15 int, +1 bal

Decay: 65 magickal (raw 74); 4.20 eq, ~dps: 15.48

Daegger: 33 cutting, physical (raw damage: 48), 5 seconds, ~dps: 6.6

Sap: 56 mana (max 472); ~12%; 2.70 eq, ~mps: 4.5%

-------------------

L3 Collar

L3 Sash

Diadem

Decay: 101 magickal (raw 83); 3.60 eq, ~dps: 28.1

Daegger: 33 cutting, physical (raw damage: 48), 5 seconds, ~dps: 6.6

Sap: 72 mana (max 637); ~11%; 2.32 eq, ~mps: 4.74%

===========

Assassin

Clever, 15 int, +1 bal

L1 whip, 77/187/165

Dirk, 86/137/194

These are very approximate figures for Assassin

Garrote: 67 asphyxiation (raw 89); 3.54 bal, ~dps: 18.93

Trioxin: 60 poison (raw damage: 89); 2.0 bal, ~dps: 30

Worm choke: 39 asphyxiation, mental (raw 45); 2.80 eq, ~dps: 13.93

Garrote + worm ~= 29.9 dps

Trioxin + worm ~= 43.9 dps

Inc flay @ /5s ~= approx 3 trioxin + 2 flay /10s ~= 180(trioxin) + 140(choke) / 10s ~= approx 31.9 dps

-------------------

L3 Collar

L3 Sash

Diadem

Garrote: 74 asphyxiation (raw 99); 3.54 bal, ~dps: 20.9

Trioxin: 73 poison (raw 109); 2.0 bal, ~dps: 36.5

Worm choke: 69 asphyxiation, mental (raw 57); 2.41 eq, ~dps: 28.63

Garrote + worm ~= 40.4 dps

Trioxin + worm ~= 65.1 dps

Inc flay @ /5s ~= approx 3 trioxin + 2 flay /10s ~= 219(trioxin) + 286(choke) / 10s ~= approx 50.5 dps

===========

Defiler

Approx L1 flail 108//168

Very approximate figures

Poison resists: 33%

Shadow: 21 asphyxiation (raw 28); per enemy attack

Entropy: 40 psychic, mental (raw 43); 2.70 eq, ~dps: 14.81

Ravage: 86 blunt, physical (raw damage: 115); 3.41 bal; ~dps: 25.2

Thornroot: 

Init: 47 poison (raw 70); 2.45 bal, ~dps: 19.2

Tick 1: 10 poison (raw 20)

Tick 2: 20 poison (raw 30)

Tick 3/4/5: 31 poison (raw 46)

Total: 170 poison (raw 258) over 30 s; ~dps: 5.7

-------------------

L3 Collar

L3 Sash

Diadem

Shadow: 22 asphyxiation (raw 32); per enemy attack

Entropy: 65 psychic, mental (raw 51); 2.32 eq, ~dps: 28

Ravage: 86 blunt, physical (raw damage: 125); 3.41 bal; ~dps: 25.2

Thornroot: 

Init: 51 poison (raw 84); 2.45 bal, ~dps: 20.82

Tick 1: 10 poison (raw 20)

Tick 2: 22 poison (raw 37)

Tick 3/4/5: 34 poison (raw 56)

Total: 185 poison (raw 309) over 30 s; ~dps: 6.2

Defiler max dps not including germinate is probably much higher, but it's hard to calculate.

Also, feel free to correct any mistakes.

E: my treant does 46 cutting (raw 73) per 5 seconds with 3 bleed, so it's fairly significant ~+10 dps

E2: Also, no one plays clever Assassin/Defiler except Iniar, so, use with caution

Mathiaus

Thanks. I was curious more than anything. @Iniar answered a great deal of questions I had, especially adding in the math and info I knew I was missing but unable to gather effectively.

What's everyone elses approximate dps? So far only Iniar had shown very valuable information to use.

Khizan

Any PvP DPS calculation you care to make is pointless because so many abilities scale off of target's max health that any calculations you make are specific to people who have the exact same health and resistances as the target does.

Ahkan

Nevermind the fact that DPS isn't a good metric to compare classes.

Mathiaus

Not comparing. Using the info for setting defensive variables.

Ahkan

That's still a poor measure.

Actually, to be honest, I think the problem you're running into is you have no idea how any of the classes achieve kills. While a lot of the posts here are informative, they don't really demonstrate 'how' that class is going to kill you. But, at the end of the day, you don't have to. You can just spam shield and push your setup and call it 'skill'.

Iniar

We figured out a use for this:-

(Ring): Iluv says, "It's also nice to give newbs a heads up."

(Ring): Iluv says, "Like don't play diabolist."

Ario

Iniar said:

We figured out a use for this:-

(Ring): Iluv says, "It's also nice to give newbs a heads up."

(Ring): Iluv says, "Like don't play diabolist."

Best advice ever!

Azefel

or wardancer

Iniar

11:39:43.861 The Song of Bedazzlement writhes in front of your eyes.
11:39:43.863 You are afflicted with an unknown affliction.
11:39:43.865 You are afflicted with an unknown affliction.
11:39:43.866 You feel the violent tones of the Song of Dissonance pound inside your head.
11:39:43.869 Damage Taken: 62 magickal (raw damage: 56)

11:39:46.546 You are:
11:39:46.547 extremely oily.
11:39:46.549 has crystal-clear hearing.
11:39:46.550 has numb muscles.
11:39:46.551 transfixed.
11:39:46.552 ablaze.
11:39:46.553 reckless.
11:39:46.554 violently ill.
11:39:46.555 an insomniac.
11:39:46.556 Equilibrium Taken: 0.62s

11:39:47.208 Autocuring: writhe transfix
11:39:47.210 You begin trying to wrest your mind free of that which has transfixed it.
11:39:47.212 Balance Taken: 1.10s

11:39:52.586 You have writhed free of your state of transfixation.

Does it really take 5 seconds to writhe out or did I miss something?

Kryss

Transfix writhe time is long, pretty sure that's normal. Unless you're a Bard/Wardancer.

Iniar

15:06:17.953 Ander's attention is grabbed and held by a nairat rune.

15:06:23.762 Ander has writhed free of his state of transfixation.

You ma'am are correct.

Ahkan

~4.5 for me.  At this point, with the spammable nature of Wardancer transfix, Runeguard transfix, and now bard (ugh) i think it would be completely legitimate to argue that transfix be on the 'web' writhe time which is ~2.4. There's no need or justification for transfix to be a x2 writhe time. If you wanted to, if there was some unique and 'hard to achieve' set up, you could increase the writhe time on transfix to set up a finisher, but there's going to be some synergy overlap in teams so it should be delicately balanced (something we're not good at). The better argument would be "don't have spammable writhe offenses" but 'we' seem to want to keep them around. Honestly, I'm a firm believer in you should not be able to combo a writhe. Everyone who voted for the ciguatoxin nerf is pretty obligated to vote to nerf transfix spam

Approximate writhe times. I'll get a pop. average later /lazy

transfix: 4.5

entangle: 3.3

web 2.4

Why are these different anyways?

Iluv

What I don't like about Bard transfix is it is given passively by Song (Bedazzlement) I think.

Iniar

Ahkan said:

~4.5 for me.  At this point, with the spammable nature of Wardancer transfix, Runeguard transfix, and now bard (ugh) i think it would be completely legitimate to argue that transfix be on the 'web' writhe time which is ~2.4. 

You forgot Wytch transfix >:[ :P

I think the one thing I dislike about bard is not being given an 'aggressor' message for Voice abilities. Having to reconstitute the attack in my head is giving me a headache

11:40:23.944 A sudden piercing tone leaves you feeling rather reckless.
11:40:23.946 You are afflicted with recklessness.
11:40:23.949 You feel a wave of sickness wash over you.
11:40:23.950 You are afflicted with anorexia.
11:40:23.953 You are afflicted with vertigo.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's Nuarinyu (I think, and I think it's the bottom three lines). The only definite one with an aggressor message (which I like) is 

You are overcome with pain as Mathiaus's voice reverberates inside your head.

It definitely tells me Mathiaus is doing something to me. Ya' know?

Mathiaus

Not sure what the hype is about bedazzlement.

1. 14 second tick intervals.
2. Target must be unblind.
3. Completely trackable on bedazzlement tick. If you're unblind and you see it tick? Guess what, you have transfix.

It's always been like that. Nothing has changed about it.

@iniar - correct, that bottom one is nuarinyu, and I definitely agree that it should have the aggressors name. Kinda silly that they didn't.

Juran

My main problem with transfix is Runeguard. The 'let me transfix you every DSL' style of offense that they got with the change to ground runes is annoying.

I have no personal issue with bedazzlement, and I've long ago come to terms with wardancer transfix as a thing.

Kryss

Wardancer offence is a shadow of what it once was, their transfix is hardly a problem and the same can be said for all of its other forms mostly because of the way it doesn't mesh well with trying to maintain momentum. Save for Runeguard and possibly Wytch.

Is Bedazzlement transfix not negated by relaxing mindseye? Either way you should do this against a Bard in 1v1. Sight is overrated.

Ahkan

Going in without mindseye 'sounds' like a good fix, but it's not. What happens if they run? Well, shucks. Writhe dancer being "A shadow of what it once was" is still pretty effective because transfix blocks curing. Since it's on a 5s writhe, you can sort of figure this out for yourself. Something, something, teams. Honestly, I thought we were trying to eliminate tactics like this, not increasing their playability (or defending their playability).

Cassius

In my opinion, I think it just needs a cooldown. The length of the writhe is essentially to use disembowel as a finisher unless 2s- dsls and limb damage is supposed to be the main thrust of RG but you complain about those as well. If shorter, the writhe would cure before the bal/eq times to transfix/impale/dsb. Basically, I think the mechanic is fine, it just shouldn't be available every 3 attacks or so.

Juran

Cassius said:

The length of the writhe is essentially to use disembowel as a finisher

No it isn't.

Ahkan

I'm going to call shenanigans. I've never see a runeguard push for disembowel. They just use it to spam dsl writhe with terrible affliction choices. You can disembowel without transfix and limb damage. They just make it easier, but aren't required.

You should not be able to do two afflictions, damage, AND transfix (or any combination of). This goes for any class. Transfix, entangle, etc, should be forced to fly solo.

Septus

Rg has the best dsb setup anyways. The ability to combo a prone with your dsl on a break into impale/bcry is a huge deal. Other knights generally have to slow momentum to opium or some such (and can still pull off 100% dsb). Transfix/impale/dsb is horribly inefficient and is going to have the person curing half the affs before you actually get to dsb (because no stun). Its a spam hinder, not a kill strategy (or at least, isn't going to kill anyone you couldn't kill with straight dsl much more easily). Won't comment on how legit it is or isn't, personally drives me insane but I don't really care either way.

Sarrius

The only time I've been disemboweled by a Runeguard is when they have run out of things to do because doubleslash isn't working while their team furiously beats on me. Every DSL getting a transfix tacked on is unacceptable, just like mashable Wardance transfix was/is unacceptable.

Azefel

that's because you didn't fight RG Septus or me