Imperian Tradeskill Revamp, Part 2!

Eusto

Hello, all! It's been a bumpy road since I first announced the Tradeskill revamp -- We've had a production shakeup, some priorities have shifted, and everyone I've ever known got straight-up murdered by a Demon God -- but things seem to be going as planned now. While progress is not where I wanted it to be at this point, I did want to provide a new thread for any questions or suggestions you might have. Feel free to post below or message me in-game with my new body, Eusto. As with before, this thread will be heavily moderated.

Eusto

Bump. Should be able to comment now. Sorry about the mix-up!

Jorachim

I'm going to get Ballmer on this.

Books! Books! Books! Books!

Seriously, when can we see the making of books or book templates or what have you released to the public. The last thing I need is some filthy Bard sprinkling magick all over the books I order before I get them.

Also:

I would like to see about the idea of trinkets. There's been a few RP ideas I've had which would be great if we were able to give out trinkets that attach to necklaces, etc.

Sumie

Libations

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1)Currently shop bars for libations is still not working well after the change to make it price per sip. The problem is that when someone refills a container, lets say a container that holds 5 it will charge them and take the comms. The comms were set for brewing 50-60 sips, and so bars make it really expensive and not worth it. I have two suggestions on how to fix this, make it like flasks and have the bar allow casks to be placed on it and have the bar take from the casks, increase the amount distilling gives comms by about 10x and then how much brewing itself creates by 10x. 

2)Pouring for some reason will ignore how much a container will hold and will likely make it hold 20 sips instead of 5.(Been told its a problem with concoctions.)

3)When you brew, it only allows you to fill one container even if you should have more sips than the container can hold. For example 60 sips are brewed you fill a 5 sip container and the other 55 are wasted.

Cooking/Libations

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Is there anyway that when somone enters one of the 3rd person lines you can return a message like...if  they entered..

"ROOM:   $+(name$) takes a final sip from $(container$), drinking the remainder of the wine."

It would return "Your statement appears like this " "Joe" takes a final sip from "a red cup", drinking the remainder of the wine."

By giving an example of the $(name$) and $(he) replaced I think it would tone down on a lot of the errors people send in and thus make the crafting process faster.

Taming

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I know taming isn't a trade skill per-say but it is fairly close...Taming for the most part seems time exhausting waiting for the pet to train every 30 mins. A simple fix to this could be either allow the pet to have 2 skills fully trained a day, resetting the end of the "month".  Or increase the cooldown to about 3-4 hours and allow a lot more to be trained at once.

Other Tradeskills

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For the most part, it relies on the trade ministries to be changed so that certain tradeskills are not made better just on price of comms alone. Metalworking>Woodcrafting.

Krysaliss

I want to second the books thing. Even when I -was- a bard I hated the lack of book customization outside of the magick circle. I used to do blackmarket books for anyone brave enough to ask. It's a silly thing to have restricted. If you want to allow bards to have some unique capabilities with regards to books, then give their books some spiffy magic capability. 

For that matter, non-magicky portraits and stationary should also exist. 

Masonry as it stands now is all but pointless, and yet sort of foisted upon certain players. Can we either remove any association with city building (this may have actually changed without me being aware, if so, ignore this portion) and/or add to the available list of goods produced or make the existing goods have a purpose. Maybe just make masonry ceramics, and we can assume all the statues and whatnot are hand-built. That'd open up more possibilities, perhaps. Iunno. I have no real specific ideas here.

Allow for satiation values to be set intelligently on food. Having super satiating flower petals and massive plates loaded with potatoes and meat and veggies offer almost no satiation is ridiculous and should stop. 

Wear/remove messages for clothing, and adjustable layering.

Sarciossis

While I don't have any tradeskills, so I can't comment on how the crafting process works, I totally third the books/portraits/letters idea. Also, seconding Krysa's remove/wear messaging for clothing. 

Totally second the taming idea. I absolutely loathe having to wait 30 mins to train my hound just so I can get it up to full stamina/speed/strength. Two sessions per every 30 mins would be fine, you could even set it to where you can't do the same skill. You could set up an arti that allows you to train all petskills every thirty minutes (or have another level of it that allows you to insta-train one skill per imperian day?).

Also, customized arrows could be fun. You could work it into metalworking maybe?

Lemuela

Agree with the books thing. Hated it when I was anti-magick that my choices were to pay 5k for a generic journal or defy RP and find a Bard who has defied her RP enough to custom design a journal for me.

A few things I'd like to see:
1. An end to the reviewer comment letters. Too easy to miss an incoming letter when logging in and have a ton of auto defenses that fill the screen. Sometimes I've had 10+ designs going on at the same time and possibly 3 or 4 need tweaked. That's 3-4 letters on top of any other letters I may have had on me to try and figure out what goes with who.

2. Which leads me to this option. An auto generated message stating comments have been made, please see DESIGN #12345. You're given the option to review, edit, and re-submit right there in the game. No sending patterns/etc. in a letter. It puts the date/time/comment of each approver and another for when I do editing. That way everybody can keep track of the timeline. It'd be like doing an orgrequest where you can check up on any comments made from others.

3. I've IDEA'd this, but I'll put it in here too. Have a system set up like guild skill lessons. In real life if I spend tuition money on a pottery class and 2 weeks into it I hate it, I can go to school and get some of my money back with the percentage based on how far into the semester I waited. I'm not necessarily saying give us back 100 credits for the permit because we'll always have that, but getting a percentage of lessons back would be nice to then put into another craft that I do really like.

Or maybe even go so far as being able to swap one permit for another with the knowledge any lessons in the first craft would be wiped. The whole point to any of this would be to scrap a hated craft with a better craft without having to start completely over. 


Edit: Came up with another idea. Jorachim mentioned trinkets. I'd love to see charms for charm bracelets and anklets. Mix and match them. I can imagine being able to create coin charms, silver and gold plated charms, the possibilities are endless for those things.

Sumie

Oh I forgot, I assume we're going to paperless like libations. So when the first approver get denies it for w/e reason could we get a message/reason so that if we want we can withdraw it before needed a 2nd and 3rd approver to say the same thing

Which by the way Lemuela, paperless crafting already has points 1 and 2 of yours.

Lalitana

A few things:

1. Are we all operating on the premise that all previously announced changes will still be happening? That is, will the paperless system, artistry changes, appearance character limits (pleeeeease), approval changes still be happening as previously discussed?

2. Yes please to allowing the poor anti-magick and demonic folks to make custom books (/journals/tomes/scrolls). I'd argue that at this point the skill should be removed from Artistry altogether and added to the woodcraft tradeskill. This would also help with the fact that journal pickup prices seem to be kind of crazy and random.

3. Agree on adjustable layering - my chemise should not look like I'm wearing it over my crazy gown, and some of the newer, more "unusual" patterns don't always cover things correctly. Wear/remove messages would be nice although I fear what some people would do with undergarments...

4. Make new templates easier to suggest and add, please. The IDEA system unfortunately seems to mean that they just kind of sit for months at a time.

5. Crafting something is annoyingly long even with an engineering item to help out. I was around when times were lengthened and umpteen messages introduced to make it more "realistic", and I still think it was a big waste of time and effort to code all that. My suggestion is to drop all those messages and keep the engineering items as comm-reducers.

Kari

@Lemuela Right now if you forget a craft skill you'd get 66 Credits and 344 lessons. So I'm unsure what you are getting at as you don't get anything back. This is like forgetting any other skill, or trading in any artifact (Your permit is considered an artifact, that is why you get 66%). 

@Lalitana I would assume that yes, he is going to keep the changes he announced. Or at least I really hope so, cause I like the way the Libations system is set up and was really excited to see all tradeskills this way.

Now onto what I want, which is basically new things in different categories. 

Metalworking : 

-Tables

Tailoring:

-Books

-Tabards (Especially with the cult system, I think this would be nifty.)

Woodworking:

-Cart (This is listed in my ideas(#51960) for more details, but  I would like carts even without the details listed.)

-Shops are not "Crafting" but rely heavily upon them, so these are a few ideas I had.

Shops:

-Being able to add a layout to a weapon via shop.

-BARREL LIST if you're holding all your Barrels.

-Buy plants higher than 50 each. Most people want a couple hundred, what's the point of having barrels if you still have to spam my shop's log with "50 nightshade was purchased for x amount"

- The ability to set a requirement to a shelf as in "Set shelf Vindicators" this means you need to be in the Vindicators guild to purchase from that shelf. Or a clan/city/etc. This way if you want items that deal with your Cult, City, guild and you don't want a bunch of randoms buying it, you can have it all in one area.

-The ability to SHOP TRANSFORM SHELF into a Bar (Could even transform a crafter's into a Bar, but only can be done once per shelf)

I think that's it.

Ahkan

When you customize an artifact. The customization should carry over during the upgrade.

Lemuela

Kari said:

@Lemuela Right now if you forget a craft skill you'd get 66 Credits and 344 lessons. So I'm unsure what you are getting at as you don't get anything back. This is like forgetting any other skill, or trading in any artifact (Your permit is considered an artifact, that is why you get 66%). 

I wasn't aware we could do that at all. I've had a tradeskill I've hated since last year just sitting there with lessons I thought would help me like it more, but never submit even one thing on it. Is there a HELP file to show how to turn it back in?

Kari

@ Lemuela It's like any other skill. Just FORGET TAILORING or whichever. It will say "You'll gain x amount of credits, and x amount of lessons and this is not reversible" etc. Just AGREE, and there you go.

Bathan

Allow me to put metalworking layouts up in my shop so people can just customize their weapons through the shop.

Lemuela

Kari said:

@ Lemuela It's like any other skill. Just FORGET TAILORING or whichever. It will say "You'll gain x amount of credits, and x amount of lessons and this is not reversible" etc. Just AGREE, and there you go.

So sweet. Thank you!!!

Lalitana

Well if we're talking about shops too...

For market stalls, please allow the owner to change the title and description without the involvement of a chancellor/administrator. I also think that since a market stall costs so many tokens it should come with a "starter pack" of standard shelves.

It would be kind of neat to be able to program in a "welcome" message a la the city log-in messages when someone types WARES (with a reasonable character limit) - e.g. "Welcome to The Herb Shoppe of Doom. Today we are offering a special discount on Primrose."

Kari

Lalitana said:

Well if we're talking about shops too...

For market stalls, please allow the owner to change the title and description without the involvement of a chancellor/administrator. I also think that since a market stall costs so many tokens it should come with a "starter pack" of standard shelves.

It would be kind of neat to be able to program in a "welcome" message a la the city log-in messages when someone types WARES (with a reasonable character limit) - e.g. "Welcome to The Herb Shoppe of Doom. Today we are offering a special discount on Primrose."

This would be nice for the ones in Caanae that need a God to change it too.

Lalitana

Another market stall request: I'd like to be able to change what the sign in front of my market stall reads.  "Check out this shop, owned by NAME" is boring.

Katarsh

Why do whetstones actually consume an entire diamond in the process of making them? Diamonds are hard enough that they certainly should not be consumed after grinding down a single rock.

Khizan

After you scratch it all up on the rock, you just throw it away. Who wants a scratched up diamond?

Jeremy Saunders

Don't a lot of whetstones have ground up diamonds in them, to help the sharpen things better?

Juran

It gives the whetstone a slight cost, and pulls diamonds from the market that would otherwise only be destroyed making jewelry. I like Khizan's explanation the most.

Gurn

Don't a lot of whetstones have ground up diamonds in them, to help the sharpen things better?

@jeremy Yes and no. Original whetstones were made just with varying roughness of rocks, from hard volcanic rocks down to smoother, softer river stones. In fact, a man with enough experience sharpening can make a blade shaving shard just with stones he finds in his area, and strop the blade on his jeans.

Only modern technology has allowed us to coat 'stones' with diamonds. These are most prevalent in the DMT diamond stones, either in the continuous metal blocks or the interrupted criss-cross ones. They're made with a coating of diamond dust, ground down to the extra coarse for reprofiling blades and shaping(120 microns, 120 effective grit) all the way down to fine polishing(6 micron, 8000 effective grit).

Still, the most prolific is still the synthetic or natural whetstones, made without a hint of diamond in sight. We've even progressed onto ceramic, and even the fancy Shapton glass 'stones'.

That being said, perhaps we could make different degrees of whetstone, one with just stone commodities, one with diamond dust, one with diamond and the like for varying costs/effectiveness? A coarser blade, for instance, could have less pure damage against less armoured targets, but its coarser and toothier edge(with a hollow grind) allows for more armor penetration, while a finely polished blade(with a V grind) allows for more overall damage output but less armour penetration, and say a sharp but unpolished edge with a convex grind allows the weapon to have greater durability.

TL;DR: If we're going to be realistic about it, whetstones shouldn't even use diamonds. At most, diamond dust. Different levels of whetstones for different effects would be cool.

Source: I'm a knife/sword nut with too many sharp objects and sharpening devices at my place.

Cadeyrn

I know this thread is a little old; but modifiable clothing. The easiest way to explain it is with an example:

A military guild has a tradition of promotion through ranks, so the creation of a jacket/overcoat with rank-insignia on the sleeve could be used by that guild to make more visible their roleplay. In today's circumstances, each rank would require a totally new object to be made even though the only difference would be one that is minor between the pieces.

There are other applications for this modifiable clothing - cults could make use of it to denote ranking or position, individuals could use it to have clothing with more than one state another example being a hood raised or lowered on a cloak. This could also be used on other objects, a few from each of the tradeskills (aside from libations and cookery).

Lalitana

I'm playing necromancer in the hopes that Eusto can make all my tradeskill dreams come true give an update on how the revamp's going/anything else we can look forward to.

Eusto

Going down the list: no, no, no, no, no, no, yes.

(Just kidding.)

I'm still here with a load of personal-life excuses that don't matter. Busting hump to make sure I don't fall into the trap of Soon (tm). Thanks for your patience. You're beautiful people.

Lalitana

It's alive!

Lemuela

Eusto said:

Going down the list: no, no, no, no, no, no, yes.

(Just kidding.)

I'm still here with a load of personal-life excuses that don't matter. Busting hump to make sure I don't fall into the trap of Soon (tm). Thanks for your patience. You're beautiful people.

Actually had to look up what the Soon(tm) reference was.....now I'm scared to submit any design to Eusto.

Sarrius

@Eusto - How is this going, anyways?

Garryn

I've removed the derail from this thread. Make sure that it stays that way.

Abigail

If Tailoring's to be revamped, I'd like to suggest the removal of the option to place gender restrictions on clothing items.