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Improving Imperian - Playerside

TeraviTeravi Member Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
Pretty straight forward. We have admin request threads to add/improve/fix things. We have lots of discussions about what's broken. What I'm curious about is what we believe we can do as players to improve things. Whether we are presenting issues that exist and looking for ideas to tackle them or presenting ideas for us to collectively work on. 

Stuff I personally think helps build the game and make it more fun all around:
- Fostering good community. 
- Newb retention. 
- Ease of entry into PK. 

My ideas
On community:
- Inclusive OOC spaces in game (hello, that ring conversation). If it's a place where a majority of an organization should be participating, like a Circle ring or an organization combat clan, keep it PC and pretend your child/mother is going to be reading it and act accordingly. There -are- kids that play sometimes. I actually discouraged my daughter from playing, when she expressed an interest, but some of her friends play other IRE games. 13-16 year olds. Keep that in mind.

- Welcoming forums, little stuff can make a big difference to someone getting their feet wet in the game, or looking to determine if they want to play at all. If all they see is complaints and rage, they aren't likely to sign up in the first place. I think we could probably use more discussions about what's good that's going on. Discussions of good organization development, player-run events, that sorta thing. Even if -we- don't need it, it gives a clear picture to potential new players about what they can expect, and which organizations might best suit their interests. I like something that Aetolia's playerbase does, with recognition on the forums for awesome things you catch other players doing. Props for good RP, good leadership, good participation, whatever. PKers have lots of bragging right opportunities, but other folks get less, I think.

Newb Retention:
- Holy crap, I have seen 2 newbies in the Bards in as many months. Those happened to be twins. I saw them twice. That was about a month ago. We need to keep every newb we can get. To that end, I think we should be making absolutely sure that our resources are all up to date in cities and guilds, make sure newbs are well-equipped, that we interact with them directly. In person. That we check up on them. That we drag them along for nifty things. That we reward them when they try stuff, even if they screw it all up. We need new players to keep the game enjoyable. We have to make sure new players stay whenever we can. 

- See above: To -get- new players, we have to be appealing. If someone comes and is checking us out, wanders over to the forums, and sees a lot of vitriol and not much excitement, do you think they'll actually make a character?

PeeKays:
- We may have already, but... some kind of simple offensive system that people can build upon for Mudlet. Maybe one for the web-based client. That would be a huge help to drag people along for the first time. Having to code first, PK second dampens enthusiasm for jumping in for a lot of people. 

- Each Circle needs to have people who know how to actually lead groups that include all levels of PK ability. I have no idea how true this is for the assorted circles, but from past experience, we've never been particularly great at assigning roles and target calling. We could do better. Doing better would make dragging along newcomers much easier. That doesn't seem like something that would be incredibly difficult to teach or write up. Maybe I'm wrong, but! I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who enjoys PK, hates coding, and hates the chest-puffing that can sometimes come along with it. I can't be mmphd to bother with it if it's going to involve a lot of coding work on my end or if I'm going to have to deal with over-inflated egos during the learning process or when group fights fall apart. (Note that I am not saying this is the case now, just that it HAS been the case in this game and others and is a detriment. I haven't PK'd in Imperian in over 3 years, so I have no idea what's what right now). 


I'm personally working on ways to encourage and support folks who are interested in performance/artistic based RP in the game. 

I purchased a clan to stick useful design/performance-based resources in, to organize events, to support people interested in watching or performing, and I built half my house up to serve as a backdrop for that sort of thing. I haven't done much with it lately, partially because I got a little burned out on the Kryss-invasions that were happening at like every performance, but also because hunting. <.<

Am I tremendously wrong? Anyone have other things they want to see us do? Areas we need to fix up? 

Comments

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    A decision is going to have to be made about age appropriateness and their target market (not by us, probably).  I like Arakis to be able to regale everyone with a story about getting in trouble for designing a blatantly inappropriate candy with, erm, filling, for example.  As I've spent a career in the military, AM ring is actually pretty tame (not that I am complaining, in the least), but is it appropriate for someone's teenagers (or God forbid, tweens) who might be playing?  Not really.  It's not awful, but I doubt parents would really appreciate it.

    Another observation as well - Achaea used to have more risque things IN game than they do now, and their player base was pretty young when I started playing (lots of trolly, angsty teenagers, bleh).  I'm talking NPC brothels.  It is a little weird when you start to realize that some players are pretty young.  That said, better for a curious teenager to go get some PG-13 descriptions from an NPC than get perved on by some older adult.  I guess?

    Also, even "serious" risque stuff can have a comic element, too.  For me, the best part of the Mhaldorians having a brothel was being able to make fun of them for it.  Even Cyrene has a belly dancer - one who will take all of your money if you give it to her, which is pretty hilarious.  If I remember you have to pay another guy.  Anyway, some guy was perving on Jules over there and I sent him over to her :P  
  • TeraviTeravi Member Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Edited because -whoa- formatting, and also. They have. It's been 13+ for as long as I've played.

    Not that I've always been perfect about it, because I've sure not been. There will always be risque content in these games, but we can minimize its expression in public spaces. 

    15.2 UNDERAGE PLAYERS
    Imperian is a game oriented towards mature players. Any player above the age
    of 13 is welcome as long as he or she is capable of conducting him or herself
    with the required level of maturity. Immaturity is not a direct function of
    age either. However, it is a sad fact that 95% of our 'problem players'
    (generally those who do not have the emotional maturity necessary to follow
    the rules and act like a member of a community) are teenagers, particularly
    ones under 16 years of age. If you happen to be a younger teenage player,
    don't worry. You will not be discriminated against based on your age. In fact,
    many young players have conducted themselves with admirable aplomb and have
    risen to prominent positions within Imperian.

    No special treatment will be given to you if you cause problems. This is a
    role-playing world, and real-life excuses for behavior are irrelevant to us.
    You will be deleted and will not be put back if you cross what we view as a
    very easy line to avoid (given that 99% of players never cross that line, it's
    obviously easy to avoid doing it).

    Examples of behavior we have seen regularly from young players that have
    caused them to be deleted would include persistently ignoring rules about
    being afk, sexually harassing other players, constantly shouting about OOC
    things, or, and this is the most common, throwing a temper tantrum at Jeremy
    or one of the other administrators. We work hard on Imperian, and while we
    always appreciate input from the players, moaning and bitching annoy us, and
    if you persist after we've asked you to quit it, you risk crossing the line
    into deletion territory.

    So, in summary, regardless of your real-life age, we expect you to act like
    mature adults. If you are not capable of doing so, then please go somewhere
    else. Remember that it is very easy for us to just type the delete command,
    and ruin the hard work you have put into your character.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Interesting.  IRE has sort of put itself in a bit of a tricky spot... They're basically saying "our main market is adults, but kids as young as 13 can play".  It's also interesting that they're flat out admitting that very young players are the most problematic (when considered as a group), and they're also almost certainly the ones with the least disposable income.  Frankly, I think I have a good guess who IRE would cut if it came down to it.  

    That said, even adults who enjoy a good joke are getting grossed out over in demonic right now, so there's definitely room for improvement.  I just don't know that that can or should mean the level of sanitization that would be necessary for most parents to totally approve OOC channel content.  In fact, it seems like a lot of parents actually seem to play all of the IRE games as a *break* from their young kids, as a chance to interact with other grownups.  So there's that.
  • TeraviTeravi Member Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
    I don't care what people say in their private forums. I am a foul mouthed wench in my personal ring chat. :P 

    I specified the organization-attached combat clans and the Circle ring chat. I don't see -any- reason why we can't keep those PG-13.
  • LinsletLinslet Member Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    There's nothing official about "circle" rings. Every single complaint you've made in the past few days about distasteful or OOC chatter can just as easily be solved by typing "rtoff" or "cltoff" until pk time or whatever.

    If the organization wants to moderate their clan in whatever arbitrary way they see fit, that's on the org. Asking the admins to create equally arbitrary rules regarding certain forms of communication when self moderation is far easier and far more in the spirit of the game is just silly, especially when the crux of your last two posts seems to be "won't somebody please think of the children?"
    Today we shall die.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    I do get the impression that Teravi wants something well beyond what the demonic people are trying for in their thread.  The demonic people just seem to want to rein in some pretty serious over the top behavior, and Teravi seems like she would ultimately like something far stricter than most Imperianites are probably used to.  I've seen that, and don't really want to go back to it so much.  
  • TeraviTeravi Member Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    o.O

    There are unofficial rings wherein large members of each circle chill. These are fine. If you are a member of one of these rings, you should probably chill on the foul language and certain subjects of conversation. 

    I do not want something 'far stricter' than most Imperianites are used to. I want people to A) have reading comprehension and B) want a good environment for -all kinds- of players of the game. I want new players and I want them to stick around. 

    I have repeatedly explained that I do not care what people do in private rings, nor that we should stop having combat/coding discussions, we just do it in appropriate places. 

    The -point of this thread- was so that people could provide their -own- ideas on how we could elevate the game with our own efforts as players.

    The point of this thread was to generate -positive- discussion on what we, as players, can do to make things rock more. PK, newbie retention, RP, whatever. 

    Way to completely miss the point.

    Edit: Asking the admins? Did you read the OP? What can we do -as players-?  I love that absolutely nothing I'm being accused of I've actually said, once, anywhere. Anyone who has been in a private ring with me can attest to the fact that I am not trying to push a bloody RPI or family friendly language. My goodness.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Arakis' ****-candy story was hilarious and appropriate for all ages, certainly anybody the 13+ years of age required.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • TeraviTeravi Member Posts: 59 ✭✭✭
    Pardon me if I am tired of repeating myself on a point that has been made multiple times across multiple threads, and rejected just as often. I am a little grumpier than I should be.

    You are quite likely to have more current knowledge on the current situation with offense than I am. I am basically tossing up ideas to see what we can do. My combat knowledge is 3 years or more out of date, so I'm all about people who are on it contributing. 


  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    Teravi, on your point of a system for Mudlet, this of course actually happened in Achaea thanks to Vadimuses, and it really did revolutionize the game.  Not that the top guys have anything to really worry about, even with all that.  If anything, I think it does help more people stick around, and also helps sell certain artifacts (the worm warp one for sure, since before SVO, very few people could make full use of that artifact).  Maybe we'll be so lucky as to have someone monetize their system that way, but honestly, Vadi is truly unique in his level of continued customer support, and an unbelievably comprehensive, mostly user proof system.  In fact, it's sort of turned players into spoiled brats when it comes to such things, because they now assume that that level of awesomeness is the norm, when in truth it's an extremely fortunate exception.  It would probably be a very positive thing for Imperian's bottom line and player retention if it happened though.  I'm with you on this point, but not sure if it's likely to happen.   
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vadi's is v slick, yes.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    It's too bad Ultrix probably won't do it.  If only she'd started playing as a teenage boy... 
  • DiceneDicene Member Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭
    I've been tempted more than once to buy svo, even though I don't play Achaea. I'm assuming his code is probably gorgeous.
    image
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From memory, most of it is in a/multiple C file/s. iirc.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, a lot of it isn't visible to the user.  What you can look at, you'd still probably find interesting.  Maybe?   
  • KabaalKabaal Member Posts: 303 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    This is tangential, but I was wondering how people felt about bashing with newbies? Do you do it all, or do you wait for them to be certain levels? Do you stick to their areas or try to powerbash them? I don't mind giving gold or info, but I have not really bashed much until the last month, so I've never had to consider it as an option.
  • MathiausMathiaus Member Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2015
    I suppose it's a matter of preference, since we have so many bashing areas now that newbies can just choose a spot and bash his or her little heart out till they reach the next level. It's nice to help someone out so they can get to a certain level to bash and get enough to gold to sustain themselves, but obviously doing it too much might make them lethargic, creating someone who assumes there's always someone to tote them around.
    image
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I power bashed a level 1 newbie to level 60 once and deeply regretted it. They missed out a lot on the good stuff.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Some newbies seem to want you to take them bashing, which is fine, but I hate taking them anywhere they might get killed - especially if they might be true newbies who will have pretty much no sense of "no really, don't try to hit things" and the like.  Also, I don't know how many others feel this way, but I was always trying to decline as politely as possible when people tried to take me "power bashing", as well-intended as it was, particularly before I was level 50 (when you lose your newbie status here).  I kind of had to dig my heels in a bit, because I really wanted to take my time exploring, and also just learning at least *something* about skills so I could make smart choices before I was "locked in".  I like what our guild is doing right now (and was done for me), which is making sure they have some idea about autocuring, hooking them up with a vialbelt, etc... (thanks Ultrix and Khizan).  
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On the rare occasions I'm willing to take anybody bashing, I just ask newbies about their IRE experience. If they claim to be an experienced player, I ask them if they want to be powerleveled.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

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