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Infirmity: The little band aid that couldn't.
Ahkan
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Infirmity is a good start in so far as to say I opened my eyes with a blistering hang over and thought about taking a first step.
Crash course in infirmity. If you stick 3 afflictions of the same herb, your opponent gets an incurable affliction that:
Drawbacks:
Crash course in infirmity. If you stick 3 afflictions of the same herb, your opponent gets an incurable affliction that:
-Increases the catharsis threshold by 10%
-Increases wight mana drain
-Could help in teams
Infirmity is per herb. So it's kelp-infirm, maidenhair-infirm, orphine-infirm etc.
Check the breakdown of evil eye and diabolists, here.
Check the breakdown of evil eye and diabolists, here.
Infirmities you will probably never stick: Orphine, Wormwood, Galingale, Laurel, Lovage, Mandrake
Infirmities you could stick: Kelp, Maidenhair (70% catharsis)
Drawbacks:
Wight has the slowest affliction rate, reducing the possibility of sticking an infirmity. (See Excel file)
Deathaura ticks every 20 seconds.
Gravehands doesn't help with infirmity
Daegger only applies a toxin 30% of the time hitting every 2.5s. RNG based offense, /sadface.
Daegger is stopped by aura and shield, reducing its already meager contribution.
Daegger only applies a toxin 30% of the time hitting every 2.5s. RNG based offense, /sadface.
Daegger is stopped by aura and shield, reducing its already meager contribution.
Base wight mana damage is 12 per stare. That's 24 per deadeyes combo. Toadstool can keep page with the mana loss. The lack of damage from the class itself means it's easy to sip mana to out pace any wight mana drain.
All of evileye cannot be tracked easily. (too much random)
Infirmity is a waste of momentum if you fail (which is why you have to be able to track 50% effectively)
If they fail at outpacing mana and curing and have 3 infirmities...they can still shield (because you can't stop it).
Infirmity is a move in an interesting direction. Sadly, it's not really helpful at this point in the game. It tries to develop synergy with necromancy, but it's forced and unhelpful. It actually achieves and antagonistic effect with animate, forcing you to forego the best benefit of animate or forego the meager bonus of mana damage from infirmity. It's not even really a juggling act. It's a pick the lesser of two evils. The reliable affliction base of diabolist is sparse and ineffective. You can't rely on daegger hunt and nightmare is negligible after the necessary nerf. Agoraphobia, dementia, dizzy, vertigo, paranoia, addiction claustrophobia are filler afflictions and offer no real advantage or inhibit opponents in combat. That's half the affliction list that serves as "stepping stone to unremarkable activated ability." It's time to go back to the drawing board (a first) and maybe address the inherent flaws in the class, rather than another band aid.
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So what's changed since then? Off the top of my head...
Nightmare has been slightly weakened. The first hit from it no longer gives an affliction and hellsight both, meaning they have to keep hellsight for a tick.
Autocuring was introduced. Now people can actually heal, which makes things more fun.
Herb, Focus and Purge were all SLOWED down. When you consider Diabolist did just fine with them at normal speed... well you get the idea.
Animate was changed. Lich allows deadeyes to be quite fast. Obviously you will be using Diabolist as fast statpack if you want to pvp.
Infirmity was added. Now you can make catharsis easier to do.. there is a major difference between even a 50% threshold and a 60% one.
Evileye contains many mental afflictions. It also contains impatience. The class has deathaura, shadowstrike, nightmare, bloodworms and daemonite. Not to mention daegger, which whilst random in when it afflicts, is still an extra affliction when it does. Obviously one does not throw out random mental afflictions and hope for the best. It's clear that with the tools provided the class is capable of aiming for one infirmity type at a time and sticking it. Someone shielding is a problem faced by every affliction based class.
Considering no one has yet attempted to use the class competitively and you yourself haven't stepped foot in the arena or any 1v1 circle of combat in a great long time, I think it's a little premature to be calling infirmity useless.
You, and anyone else, are quite welcome to take up Druid (as per your example) and flavor of the month your way to victory. I mean... it's just that easy, right? If 1v1 were dead, we would not have Jeremy considering ways for champions to duel, classes devoted to a 1v1 style or regular scuffles in the arena that are in all honesty a lot of fun. I have a great deal of respect for those that fight in the arena on a regular or semi-regular basis.
Now on the subject of shield being such a pain to Diabolist.. this case can be made for Assassin, Hunter, Wytch and plenty of non-affliction classes too. In high level 1v1 play, shield is always going to be something that can end a kill attempt. In my opinion, perfect combat will carry on forever until one person makes a mistake, be it in their defense or maybe even offense. Now while this rarely happens (because no one is perfect) it's what we can try to achieve.
And uhm.. Maybe -you- can't track mental afflictions. I can. Hunters track based on guess work too!
Changing curseward was not a bad idea. Changing curseward alongside nerfing nightmare, nerfing cigua stacking, bringing in purge blood, bringing in a variety of new afflictions to Imperian and not giving a single one of them to Evileye is an odd oversight. Peace being beaten incredibly hard with the nerf bat as well.
Then along comes a change which requires that old insane momentum to do. The benefits to sticking it is increased mana drain, should you currently be in Wight. To stick it, it requires the increased speed of Lich, or (maybe, I'm unconvinced) luck with hunt. There is no reason to get lucky with hunt. There is no reason to get hit by hunt. It is stopped cold by rebounding, which Diab has no method to strip besides good old RNG (seems to be a continuing factor). It is stopped entirely by shield, which Diab has no effective method to strip. Hammer is slow and not effective for anything that is not a limb damage class. That EQ is nearly 2 deadeyes combos, and will also result in a necessary breach once you recover EQ anyway, so you basically lost 2.5 combos. That murders any kind of progress easily.
Here is the most hilarious part, imo. If I am fighting a damage class, I can't even keep up with the cost of my own deadeyes combos because I have to sip health. I legitimately could not fight Priests, period, because they could just sit there and cure while leaning on sap, and eventually I would have to stop, or I might as well just Catharsis myself and get it over with. Monks could lean on Crush, and I'm on 0 mana after 4-5 deadeyes. Then Druids (it is Druids, right? Maybe Hunter? God I don't even know someone teach me the new classes) comes along with a mana-based insta-kill/mana draining of their own. Now I can't fight them either. Outrider gives me the choice to clot or eat insane damage off bleeding, but clotting kills my mana too. Toodles, this class is ****.
Speed has ever been a prime factor in pvp. Thus the attraction of Lich. Wight is perhaps more suited to a team, where mana draining deadeyes might serve in place of sap should you feel the situation requires the added afflictions.
As for hunt.. while it can be rebounded, someone who is keeping aura active against a Diabolist is someone who is going to be eating up hellsight a lot easier. Not to mention, if that person is fighting back their aura will vanish whenever they do so. Should they choose to simply turtle there shall be little you can do, nor much any class could do. Regardless, keeping asthma on someone is one of the most basic things for a Diabolist to do, due to it being in their best interest.
Hammer is used by many classes. It even gets a speed boost with the right shard skill unlocked! In fact, Assassin, Hunter and Wytch use it too! I don't think they are limb-damage classes, yet they all do just fine.
Diabolist is a very tanky profession. Yes, Diabolist vs Priest is a very hard match and always has been. But this example is not unique, there are plenty of times when a certain class can really keep another certain class in check. The skill of juggling your health and mana usage has always been present, even in the days of the 'overpowered' Diabolist. While I'm not saying the specifics of that are perfect as is, I do not think they are as bad as all that, provided we are referring to 1v1, which is where Diabolist like all it's affliction based kin truly shine.
When all is said and done, I'm not saying Diabolist is totally fine as it is and it could very well stand to be adjusted further. I am all for a total remake of the class as much as anyone else! What I am saying though, is that it is a class that has not been used seriously for a long time. No one has done anything but complain, without making the effort to actually try. If you don't make an effort, you will not improve - regardless of whether you think the class is incapable or not. I for one, am quite positive that Diabolist can now compete in 1v1 as well as it ever could, if not better.
Hunt is stopped by shield and by rebound, all while only dishing out a toxin 30% of the time. Google probability and do some basic math. You'll learn how sad the scenario is. It's unreliable at best and atrocious at worse. It's not even good damage.
You also need to bear in mind that all of the classes you just mentioned being good at has been changed except Diabolist. Bards are more interactive with their sketches and yoth prevents the need for perfect timing on revelation strip. Assassin/renegade has got shadowplant (amongst the other spatium skills), Summoners can mask their aeon. Hunters can burst afflict into a Claw/Brainmelt combo. Wytches can flare runes, throw dust on curse, and blight more effectively. Things have changed, Diabolist hasn't. As the world progresses, so too must everything else. There is a reason for the word "Redundant" in the English language.
So what could be done? Personally I wouldn't mind seeing infirmity work in the same capacity as wytch marks. In that it ignites after the person has got a specific number of afflictions. Or is given to be more specific. Obviously this would be a momentum mechanic. But wouldn't draw away from the goal to overwhelm with afflictions rather than strictly certain herb afflictions. That is at the very least what I wouldn't mind seeing. I'm no expert, nor do I claim to be. I can see both sides of the argument, however I do feel the outdated aspect of Diabolist is detrimental to its 1v1 capacity. "It used to be godly" just isn't a valid enough argument.
Just my two cents.
Applying any of your suggested changes to Infirmity would make it overpowered - the skill is obviously unexplored, because the only people discussing it either don't have the class or don't put in the time to learn and test it in a practical, applied environment. Tinkering with it in a few cute team fights isn't 'testing' - the class needs to play to its strengths, and affliction classes generally like to fight alone because their momentum takes time to build.
The class is clearly a duelist in a world where team combat is currently king. It will shine again when somebody intelligent picks it up and duels are more commonplace.
tl;dr - Sure, back in Imperian's version of the Age of Legends, True Locks were cool and what you did. The game has evolved, and strategy needs to evolve too. Malignist is a workable class, and Infirmity was just what it needed.
While I agree that forcing an automatic infirmity when they hit 3 afflictions would be overpowering. I didn't specify that it was 3 afflictions, just that it was a certain threshold. Given that none of the diabolist's afflictions are hidden in nature nor do they have any non-curable cure blocking abilities. There's quite a few skills that use this mechanic, druids' delayed empowerments, hunters' triggers and wytches' marks. I don't know the newer AM skills to say if they have any. However these weren't deemed to be overpowered.
Rebounding has a hard counter in asthma. It also has a lesser counter in forcing pipe-cured affliction priority first, delaying rebounding coming up. It's also a somewhat finite resource (depending on how common those token pipes are, I assume most active combatants have 1 or 2), and can create further delay to refill an empty pipe.
Curseward has no such counter. There is nothing to stop it. There is nothing that will create a longer time before the counter resets and one can re-def curseward again. 6 seconds after breach, you can put it back up, regardless of all other factors aside from getting balance back to do it. I definitely do not understand the comparison between the two.
Edit: I'm not sure if I'm being misunderstood or misinterpreted as saying that curseward should not exist or some such. I agree with how it is, at least in regards to Diab. But I think, like rebounding, there should be some method to counter it as well.
Allow the Diabolist to order the daegger to have a delayed strike with a certain toxin.
Buff the Malignosis demons as such:
Fiend - becomes frenzied and gives a status effect that decreases the effect of clotting defenses. With a nice CD.
Nightmare - becomes frenzied and gives a status effect that gives a % fail on a cure... and gives a 3rd person message fail with what was failed and what was used.
Bloodworms - instead of just stripping, the bloodworms uses a screech then applies a curing malus - purge, tree and focus are usable 25% slower than usual.
Horror - no idea how to buff this to be useful.
Malignist and Wytch are the only affliction classes (Outrider too, technically) that get on demand access to every lock affliction. Malignist still has one of the fastest affliction rates in the game, and even post-nerf the best passive. I refuse to accept that in a game with 2.0s herb balance Malignist is in a bad place. The numbers just do not support it.
Hunter may be better against garryn-bot, because it's less linear and has an abusrdly simple kill condition against a blind healer, but Hunter relies heavily on trigger for its affliction speed - and that is subject to the whims of the afflicted. Assassin can keep up with Malignist during the hypnosis snap timer, which also gives them athe much desired access to impatience, but the latter class loses less momentum to shields and rebounding plus has ways to leverage pipe smoking.
Until someone actually known for afflicting picks up the class and tests it, I am hesitant to call the cards stacked against you. Like I said, the numbers simply do not support it..
You do both at the same time. Slowing down eq regain will slow down people that are attacking you. If I were diablost I'd keep up confusion and have my first two toxin deliveries be oxalis then hemo,cigua. Then with eq being zapped(bloodworms) I'd be able to get rid of fitness and can lock in hellsight for longer and do what/ev from there.
Breach, paralysis, impatience, confusion, stupidity, asthma, slickness, anorexia would be my affliction queue. I'd likely have to add in some junk mandrake and wormwood affs, but I don't see why you'd stop using confusion to stop eq regain or impatience to stop focus.
Does this stop people from hitting you? Nope. Will it slow people down(killing their d/s and/or a/s) and slow down curseward? yes. And, once hellsight sets in(it will be cured the first few times it's afflicted, as with all afflictions), your affs/s will be raised and by this time their cures/s will decline. It builds on itself, which is always what I aim for when I construct an offense.