Monolith Capture

Ahkan

Take a mechanic that already exists in combat and apply it to capturing monoliths for the aspect system. The precedent is already set with shards and it's made the system much more entertaining.

While capturing a monolith you cannot be vortexed, lured, yanked, beckoned or attacked by any other ranged mechanic. You must be in the room to interrupt the monolith capture.

Another easy fix. ctrl-c, ctrl-v. It might not even need a classlead!

Juran

System is fine, affects everyone the same. It's such a niche mechanic at this point I have no problem with it being harder to capture a monolith than capture a shard.

Ahkan

Colored me surprised. "This, I exploit. It is fine."

Iluv

Monolith capture is fine as is.

Ahkan

The problem is being able to remotely cancel a capture without actually engaging in combat. It's a stall tactic that doesn't actually make the game more interesting for anyone. It's a grief tactic. If you want to contest a capture, you should have to walk into the room and attack them, thus encouraging actual combat. Instead of "do this thing, leave area, file issue."

Compromises:
The ability to heal while controlling. 

At this point in the game, any mechanic that prevents you from putting up defenses, curing or even blinking is a terrible mechanic. I can understand not using skills that take balance, eq, but anything else is just silly. (someone mentioned this before when they were arguing for upgrades to their circle a few months ago)

Sarrius

Monolith capture is fine. Can't you go one loss without some kind of Dunning-Kruger-esque rave?

Delrayne

Look, I don't hit the monolith scene like some people. But I'm more inclined to agree with Ahkan. Aspects are meant to fight over the monoliths, not sit back 20 rooms away and do some attack that interrupts the capture until they rage QQ. I mean seriously, there should be VERY similar requirements in monolith attacking as shard attacking. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to put the nerf on adjacent room attacks, but things like vortex and AoE attacks should not work in my opinion. If you want to challenge a monolith capture, roll your sleeves up and actually challenge it. Don't sit back on a pedestal and laugh for however long it takes for them to rage quit.

Cadeyrn

If we reduced monolith capture to shard-like requirements we would have a situation where Magick would reign unchallenged. Personally. I'd like to see monoliths switch to something like the lightning-blade-storm-sword-thing-event we had a few years back. A 1v1 challenge, perhaps where the defender can nominate a champion to defend it for them.

Delrayne

@Cadeyrn I'd be fine that. I just don't like the aspect of being 20 rooms away and effectively defending a monolith.

Kryss

Some classes.. hello Iluv.. Can attack a monolith at range better then others. In this case you probably should just being someone else (or lots of people!) and have them deal with whoever is worm sniping or longshot or whatever. Personally I like Monoliths as they are, if you're contested they are harder to fight over then a single shard and so it should be. But hey, I'm all for Cadeyrn's idea too.

Azefel

agree with Ahkan but already put up with existing mechanic for too long to actually give a **** if it changes or not

Juran

It depends how it's being used. In some cases, people will intentionally disrupt a capture without any plans of taking it, simply to disrupt the capture. In other cases, it's used to forestall a capture to allow time for a counterattack.

The first is frustrating, but can't be disabled without making the second impossible. I have no problem with someone slowing down a capture from range to give time for people to leave Dis, so that the side without Aryana can also get contested monoliths sometimes too.

Iluv

I think Change warp and Terror aspect powers should be looked into and addressed before this issue should be considered.

Juran

On second thought, still fine with it.

Menoch

Juran said:

Hypocrisy.

What's good for the goose!

Sarrius

I was fine with it before and I genuinely still think it is fine. This thread was started because Ahkan probably lost a bout for a monolith and as usual, he can't receive as a good as his circle gives, so the problem is not that he lacks any ability (how dare we imply his skill level is not where he believes it is), but because the system is obviously flawed.

Juran changed his opinion after experiencing a circle actually interfering for once and having no issue with it because monolith capture actually is not very difficult to maintain or defend.

Juran

Disrupting the capture was working pretty well for you, but I just apparently have more patience than you do when it comes to things like this.

Juran

That's not hypocrisy by any actual definition of the word.

Menoch

Juran said:

people will intentionally disrupt a capture without any plans of taking it, simply to disrupt the capture.

I proved my point. 1 person with trollacious intent can stop 10 people from capturing. Don't flatter yourself into making this an analogue for strength of will. You can, I am certain, poopsock more effectively than I, because I have important things to take care of in reality that prevent such mindless dedication. In actuality, for this situation, you had basically all of AM that was online at the time, and some more you or someone else skypetrained in, and I still could have kept going with relative ease and continually disrupted capture, had I felt that further driving my point home was required. It wasn't, so I decided to let you have it.

Caelya

I don't know about you guys, but I don't particularly want to lose these nifty forums. Keep your flame wars to PMs or take a walk and get some air .

On-topic, I think there are a lot more dire things regarding the Aspect system that need addressing before the way monoliths are captured are. Like making all three Aspect types equally appealing so that it's not horribly lopsided 90% of the time. Though on the topic of monoliths, cross-circle monolith battles are wholly confusing - I thought it was AM vs Magick vs Demonic, not Moonwars.

Mkvenner

I couldn't find anything else to play so was thinking about coming back to Imperian again. I then read this thread.

Thank you guys, saved me there.

Sarrius

Mkvenner said:

I couldn't find anything else to play so was thinking about coming back to Imperian again. I then read this thread.

Thank you guys, saved me there.

Barring the occasional outburst like this and Ahkan's continued bitter apathy and in-circle abuse, Imperian is quite fun right now - at least for Anti-Magick!

Bathan

Menoch said:

Right, because a personal attack was made, and responded to. Not my fault if his life is worth less than mine, just my fault if his denial fails to allow him the realization?

E: Work towards one of those moments of clarity my not so little friend.

This intro level psych jargon is blowing my mind, I'm going to have to dip out, but you have a happy holiday guy.

I maintain that the monolith setup is fine. It's annoying, but it breeds more conflict which is always a good thing. Caelya's right though. It's the rest of the system that needs looking at. 

Menoch

In essence, completely agreed with. It's ridiculous that change is so lopsided. There's no reason to go terror, regardless of the fact that Menoch will for arghpee, when change is clearly and universally agreed upon as the superior choice in any and all conceivable ways. ~900cr worth of artifacts? Yeah, for min/maxers, this is a clear choice.

E: For people that don't compromise RP, enjoy having nothing comparatively for sticking to your character's roleplay.

Azefel

Caelya said:

I thought it was AM vs Magick vs Demonic, not Moonwars.

If it was restricted to AM vs magick vs demonic, it's going to be as useless as Orders when they were also made to tie to circles. That being said, occasionally it's still AM vs magick vs demonic for monoliths.

Juran

I haven't personally seen a cross-circle team over a monolith in ages, how often does that even still happen?

Iluv

I've been a part of cross-circle teaming recently and also inner-circle fighting as well. Also, same aspect ganking for denial of warp.

Azefel

imo aspects and circles are independent of each other and I do whatever is in my best interests, (e.g. letting a same-aspect magicker get a mono and deterring different-aspect AM from taking it, though this isn't necessarily always the case). Lately it's not really been an issue, though.