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Comparing the IRE Games
Aistrai
Member Posts: 6 ✭
Hello everyone. After a very long hiatus from Achaea(Think around 8 years) , I've returned there. Now a bit older and wiser, I've wondered about the other games belonging to IRE. Once upon a time I tried Imperian...for all of an hour or two. Aetolia as well.
MUDs as a hobby or passion are incredibly unique and from my experience there are a lot of factors that can lead a person to stay and play or leave early.
So I guess what I'm asking and wanting to start a discussion about is what the differences are between IRE MUDs, what features one has that the other does not and what draws you, if anything, to play the ones that are less populated; knowing that something which unfortunately drives choice is the online player count!
**For me, my memories of trying Aetolia many years ago were rife with feelings that I could never really get anything realistically done. There were 2 city mates and I had to make appointments to ask questions, be inducted into various groups or clans, etc.
And yet what draws me to look at other titles is often the vast difference they provide. Achaea is clearly the eldest child that it is but can I be an Amazon there? I think not!
So, do you love your choice of game and how awesome is it to play here, there or anywhere for that matter? Let me know 
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Comments
Imperian [spoiler]
Pros:
Bashing is easy, largely because of what Jules said.
Combat is relatively easy, especially group fighting.
Everyone seems very.. Casual? Not strict about things, do whatever you want, so long as it's not gonna cause bad problems.
Cons:
All of the above, can also transition to a bad atmosphere.
Bashing being so easy, sort of makes the reward in the end feel meh. Aspect is not really that great at all, the only real benefit of getting a higher level is more hp / crit, to... Get more levels/gold. Combat at the moment is largely focused on a damage meta, which tends to be pretty unfriendly to new people versus the 'higher' end of players, outside of maybe Diabolist/Hunter who can absolutely shut people down once they get things sorted. Casualness, isn't a bad thing in itself, but things can get pretty boring at times. No real incentive to join a guild anymore, for instance. Only real reason to join a sect is for highfavours.
In saying this, I still like Imperian because I like getting to do what I want without getting hounded by other players. Rules do get very boring at times, I like talking and hanging out with people not of my faction, because it makes for interesting RP most of the time, also opens up avenues for conversation when people of my 'faction' aren't around / available. [/spoiler]
Aetolia/Lusternia [spoiler]
Pros:
Again, easy and very casual bashing which means getting to the level cap isn't so much of a chore. (for those who aren't extremely fond of bashing)
Being high level isn't -that- big of a deal, because outside of a few factors, there's not a great deal of PvP things that can 100-0 you without you knowing wtf happened.
Cons:
Lots of the players seem to... I dunno, keep to themselves? I guess. That sounds worse than I mean it to be, but if you've played there extensively I'm sure you've encountered what I mean. Game is loaded with autobashers, as well, probably because there's free systems floating out there that have in-depth ones coded, but it is what it is.
In saying *this*, they're still games I like a lot when I'm in the mood for playing the... Different sort of atmosphere that those two games have, combat for me has largely devolved in a shithouse though. Aetolia's static curing orders makes things very boring, Lusternia afflictions don't really mean anything and are all just a system that is focused almost entirely around damage. [/spoiler]
Midkemia Online [spoiler]
Pros:
Bashing feels very rewarding. Can be very hard at sometimes, but the payoff is great. Stats mean something, and aren't just there to pad whatever you're focused on. The game itself rewards reactive playstyles, and automation in combat is much, much less prevalent.
Probably the lowest investment-required game out of the five, both in terms of gold as well as in credits. With just tri-trans you can pretty safely compete, and not -need- anything more. Outside of the three class skills, it's largely just for convenience / quality of life improvements.
Cons:
Much lower playerbase, makes the game feel very, very barren at 'off peak' times - a feeling which is not -that- much better during 'peak' times.
Same with Lusternia; lots of players freely keep to themselves, and just stay inside of their homes, sheltered away from the outside world.
Lack of tracking makes finding people hard. You can argue that you can just ask where people are, but that kinda eliminated spontaneous 'Hi!' RP moments, where you can face-to-face approach people.
As with the above, I still love the game. Lack of players can also mean I get to do whatever I want when I play; the group combat activities could use some love, but aside from that I think the PvP there is in a very nice spot. Nothing is really 'better' than another class, it all just comes down to how good the player playing is. Artifacts, while great, don't really help you overcome another person unless they're truly horrid. The MKO versions of Septus, for instance (skilled AND artifacted people), have been beaten by people who only have two trans'd skills and no artifacts. [/spoiler]
Finally, Achaea. The big one. [spoiler]
I'm not gonna 'list' pros/cons here, because the game itself I feel is much, much more than that. This game catches so much **** from players in all the other games, and quite frankly, while I can understand why at some points, I also think a lot of people who make the complaints are horribly biased. Not gonna name names, but if you think this part of the post is directed at you, then you can safely assume that it very likely is.
Firstly, combat. Achaea is, first and foremost a combat-oriented game. This is something that Sarapis has openly admitted; it's the first thing he had in mind when he created the game, and it's still his number one priority when he's asked. There've even been recent forum posts of him basically confirming this. This of course can very openly have its downsides; someone who is lackluster at combat, but great at 'politics' can very easily be pushed around by the 'bigger guy' at times, with no *true* recourse of action they can take. Simply because something like "You booted me from the city, so I'm gonna hunt you down" is a very real thing. No one truly likes to resort to issues when it comes to this thing, but if you're not of a combat mind, then you're not gonna end up having a lot of fun, when running into people like this. Mechanics can, and quite often, will trump RP.
Secondly, the admin. I have no idea why the admin in any of the IRE games catch so much flak from players; they're all great, and do their jobs just fine. Yet garner such horrible insults (quite a few times openly, on the forums, where everyone can see it, I might add). "You nerf my artifact, gimme a full refund or I'm quitting, you're a horrible person!!!" this isn't even breaking the ice, of some things I've seen (not limited to Achaea by any means, at that), despite the HELP ARTIFACTS file saying that artifacts being changed, is a very real possibility, and it's not at the fault of the admin that you chose to purchase something. Nor are they obligated to give you a full, or even partial, refund of the item, just because its functionality was altered. YET SOMETIMES THEY DO, and you STILL complain about it. The patience of the admin, is out of this world sometimes. Much love to you guys, I wish I had that kinda patience with some people in particular.
Thirdly, bashing / experience in general. Probably the biggest reason I love the admin of Achaea more (not an insult to the others, just sharing of attitudes!). I like bashing. A number of people I know like bashing. I appreciate that some people don't like bashing as much as I do, and that's fine! Not everyone likes grinding repetitive things over, and over, and over (which is odd, considering some of you spend hours harvesting, which isn't too dissimilar!). I like that death is actually meaningful, and -encourages- you to take precautions necessary to NOT die. High/Truefavours aren't commonplace, compared to the other games. They're not trivial to get, but when you do get them, it definitely feels good, because it means a divine noticed you and felt like rewarding you for something you did. - The end-game to bashing is great. Tikal/Demi-God/Aspect/..I forget MKO's version! is like nothing, compared to being a GIANT FREAKING DRAGON.
Bottom line, I like Achaea because it's the only game that has any real 'risk' anymore from venturing in the world. I love that the Admin share this view, and don't give in to player demands for a better 'streamlined' experience. I like that joining a guild (house) actually has advantages outside of being another source of credits. R.I.P Imperian guilds
- And I'm going off on a slight rant now, without intending to.. So I'll end my points there, and get to end. The question posed of 'what draws you' - For me, it's honestly just because I have 2-3 good friends outside of Achaea, and it sucks that that's the 'main' draw for me. I liked the days of getting on @Menoch's or @Eldreth's nerves only to have them hunt me relentlessly, killing me for opening my mouth, and forcing me to pay for doing so. But I dunno, I like being a nuisance I guess. I make fun of @Juran, he kills me.. Then what? Damn, I have to go sit by Charon for 30 seconds. Sucks to be me!
-To answer the money-spending question, I'm just gonna say what most others (that I know in Imperian, at least) will tell you. Just get in and play, what's the worst that can happen? You don't like it, and decide it's not for you. That's fine! You're not obligated by any means to stay! - Maybe you lose $20 on the no-brainer lessons, in most cases I'd imagine that's not gonna be too big of a deal. It's not any different to buying some game off steam, and getting bored of it after a week or two. (not that I'd know about that >.>)... But on the other hand, that $20 might show you enough enjoyment, that you decide to stick around and spend more, to create more fun for you! There's no real 'loss' either way. If you're having fun, then that's the main thing.
*pant* That took a lot to type. I hope it helps, though!
PS for all the Admin (and even the admin of other games, since I know some of you visit other IRE forums!) - Keep up all the good work that all of you do; ignore all the naysayers and haters!
:x
From what you've described, I think Aetolia is probably your best bet - while Imperian does have niches of RP that are very enjoyable and fulfilling, Aetolia has centered itself firmly into the 'RP-heavy' side of IRE. The major obstacle you generally hit is finding a way to break into the various cliques, which tends to be a more ambiguous task than in other games. My suggestion would be to just start emoting in bits and pieces and see who picks up on it, and then carry it from there - just like most games, players are always excited for new blood and will probably bend over backwards to incorporate fresh faces.
However, since this is Imperian's forums, I do have to give credit where it is due. Especially recently from the sounds of things, RP has shifted back into the focus as players/admin realize how important it is for establishing a living, breathing setting and taking advantage of the unique tools MUDs offer in that domain. It will come down to the setting, too, as this is another major dividing line between the various games. Imperian has a lot of raw, untapped potential, especially with the setting dramatically shifting in the last few years with plenty of pockets of lore that have barely even started to be touched on. There's a real opportunity for player-driven projects from this perspective, as you have a lot of room to shape your story that you may not be afforded elsewhere.
Mechanically, the games have long since diverged and are difficult to compare objectively. A lot of people, especially in Imperian, find things like Aetolia's static cure orders to be stifling - but to extrapolate on that example, the mechanics in that game have evolved over the years with that principle in mind, and you'd likely find that there are different intricacies and strategies to focus on that don't exist elsewhere (dedicated curing tree blockers, more 'complete' tracking, the nightmare that is prerestoration, etc.).
One of the things I really like about Imperian is the low-to-non-existent death penalties, because I generally believe that the only thing that high death penalties do is keep the low-rollers out of the game.
I mean, look at it. For a death penalty to be of any real significance to somebody like Juran/Khizan/Septus/Eldreth/Risca/etc, that death penalty has to be absolutely devastating. We're talking about a largeish flat percentage of experience, or heavy gold penalties, or SOMETHING. Realistically, you are never going to see a death penalty high enough to make us think twice about doing stupid things, because then nobody else would be willing to do anything even moderately risky. The kind of death penalty it takes to make somebody like us care about dying is the kind of death penalty that keeps somebody like Jules from even trying.
And since your death penalty basically doesn't exist for the high-rollers, you might as well make things so that it doesn't exist for anybody. I'd much rather have a game where it's possible to clear the benches and get everybody involved than a game where people are too worried about the death penalty to get involved.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
(Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
(Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
Autocuring straight out of the box is going to be good enough for 90% of the game. Autocuring with some changes to the priorities will be good enough for 95% of the game. The 5% who really get into top-tier 1v1 combat are going to need to track afflictions clientside to adjust autocurings priorities dynamically, but they're still going to use autocuring as the base of their system. It's just too good to do otherwise; In theory, you can make a client-side system that is better than autocuring. In practice, latency issues will almost certainly negate any gains made by such a system.
As far as offensive systems go, I do not know of any offensive systems being sold at this time; the two players who did sell such systems went inactive and IIRC those systems are no longer for sale or supported. You don't really need a complicated system for most classes, though. Basic if/then/else coding skills will handle everything you need to do for everything but top-tier affliction combat.
You mentioned Amazon in particular; that class has a fairly low coding threshold to be good. I mean, even @Theophilus can do it!
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
(Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
(Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."