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Whell Of (mis)Fortune March 2017

WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
in General Discussion
You guys already know my relationship with the wheel. Post your winnings, thoughts, rants, and raves below! I will start us off.

Raves:
1. Thank goodness the title tokens have been removed, getting 2 for a 25 credit spin last month felt like biting into a soggy fry.
2. Getting an assembly no matter what, more or less cuts down the cost of the spin to 20 credits, which is very generous. Thank you.

Rants:
1. - From 50 to 500 credits. (The chance has been significantly increased)
Can you actually win 50-500 credits from the wheel? Or is it actually 50, or 100.. and the 500 is the jackpot? Because that should be specified. This type of wording is very misinforming. Everyone knows that you have a 'chance' at 500, but only when the counter is at 25 and below. You don't have a freakin' chance at 500 otherwise. No one spun 500 from the last wheel, or the wheel before that(that wasn't a jackpot)and it had this type of wording on it. Because let's be real here, we can see the counter. You allow us to see the counter. If it is 500, I have a ZERO percent chance of winning the 500 jackpot. To even say I have the chance is ridiculous.

Please clarify and fix the help file if the 500 is only the jackpot, because reading the above, I am under the impression I can win more. Spinning last night close to maybe 50 times, the highest credit prize I got was 100. No one got 70, 80, 69, 66, or any number inbetween 50-500 that wasn't exactly 50 or 100. I also watched other spins more times than that and again, the prize was never more than 100.

2. - Treasure Maps (HELP TREASURE MAPS)
This is listed in the prize list, again, this is misinforming because the wheel is only giving out map fragments. Of which you need 10 to complete a map. That type of wording gives the impression that players will win an entire map. I'm actually 100 on it only being fragments, but please don't misinform with this because I wasn't the only one who thought you'd get a whole map.

3. Why are phylacteries only in free spins? Can we please have this added to the paid spin prize table?


Achaea's wheel changes throughout the month based on player feedback, can the powers that be at the very least consider implementing changes throughout the month based on our given feedback? Raids are getting a lot of attention, but the main promotion that is supposed to rake in cash for you guys is not. I love to gamble and was tempted all month long last month to buy spins, but instead dropped a load on credits because the value there was better than to risk it. That is saying so much, because I live and die by the wheel, whether roulette or of (mis)fortune.

Ideas:

1. Fix the misinforming wording in HELP WHEEL
2. Add phylacteries to the paid spin prize table
3. Add gladiator tickets to the paid spin prize table
4. Add the chance of winning artifacts(ogre gauntlets, hunter's belt, wings) to the prize table
5. Add artifact fragments to the paid spin prize table(this one may be asking for too much, but lololol you miss 100% of the shots you don't take)

Because as of right now, that prize table is 18 items deep and literally 50% of that is ethereal bull and you already know how we feel about that. You might as well remove all but the ropes so I can hang myself with it. Please give us a bigger incentive than simply a chance at 5X(30cr. spin, minus 10 for the assembly which is more or less 20cr a spin) our investment. The odds are not in our favor and that type of potential prize is simply not enticing enough.

On my 5th point above, I suggest this because in order to complete some of the artifacts you have to have 5 pieces(alot, imo). That means somewhere out there, 500 credits had to be purchased to create it. And the list is long. I believe something similar to this promo ran back then and the players made points about it that will surely be brought up again.

@Eoghan and @Jeremy
You say, "Oh crap."
You say, "My bottle is empty."
Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.

Comments

  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    Skye said:
    If we're making suggestions, I'd be all for removing ethereal items altogether, but especially from paid spins. Considering most of them sell for a few credits at most, it seems like a raw deal for 30cr.
    While I would LOVE to see this happen, I honestly don't see it being implemented. Simply because with all gambling there is a chance at duds. It keeps things balanced for the 'house'. I thought guaranteeing an assembly piece was a great direction to go for example, because at the very least we aren't stuck with only 1 ethereal item. We are seeing some value coming back to us.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    According to HELP WHEEL:

    From 50 to 500 credits. (The chance has been significantly increased)

    I have literally never seen a credit prize this month.. are we sure this is actually a thing? Every spin I get a useless assembly piece (which is to be expected) and a random little trinket that can be used one time to make icewalls or firewalls.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    Half into the month, if they haven't responses yet, I doubt they will respond or are they open to changing according to player feedback. That's cool though, it is what it is.

    @Theophilus, I have seen the credit prizes. With that being said, I have not seen higher than 100 as my original post stated and it has actually been less of an occurrence than it was with the previous wheel. And that previous wheel was pretty stingy with the payouts after the fix. 
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    It's disappointing, especially since it costs 30 cr per spin now--and the rewards are, to put it frankly, garbage.

    Granted the price lessens with the more spins you buy, but you need to buy 20 or so spins to make it cost 28 each.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    I have yet to get one thing I actually consider useful out of the wheel.  I actually tend to be annoyed when I get Truefavour despite it being a good thing, because it means I HAVE to spend my time online bashing, or I waste it.  I can't take things at my own pace.

    Everything else I've gotten has been mostly pointless: 6k gold (lol), an experience boost (as aspect...), and a critical hit bonus that doesn't seem to stack with my existing artifacts.
    image
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    @Anette We're talking about paid spins-- different prizes.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Honestly, given what I've seen people getting from the paid spins at Shuk (and I imagine otherwise), I haven't felt much impetus to try paid spins myself, but I will confess that's true.

    More expensive + poorer prize pool seems like a losing combination to me.
    image
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 487 ✭✭✭
    welcome to @Wyll of Fortune.
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    @Theophilus, you have to buy 50 spins for it be 25 credits each. Which is 1250 credits already. At that point it is 15 credits a spin if you factor in the guaranteed 10 credit tradein on assembly.

    I know the wheel is a risk and it is gambling, but I could go to the roulette wheel and bet 50K, which is 2 credit at current market value and have a more or less 30% chance to get 6 credits back, plus my original 2 back.

    Why would I risk 30 credits for a chance at 100 when the odds are from not only my experience, but other players, super low.

    The best prizes you can hope for from this wheel is:

    50 credit + assembly
    100 credit + assembly
    Taming certificate + assembly(33 tradein + 10)

    And that is it. That's it. Everything else and you are in the negative. And I am only counting 27-30 credit spins. Most people aren't going to drop 1250 on spins in one go.

    If the prizes are going to get worse with each return of the wheel, please just give us the wheel for one month out of the year and let the prizes be great. Getting tired of seeing it anyways unless there is a serious chance for us to do something or the prizes have more variety.

    I feel like whoever deals with promotions know people raved about the wheel last time and are just going to keep throwing it at us while gradually lessening the prize hoping we don't notice.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    .
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Wyll said:
    If the prizes are going to get worse with each return of the wheel, please just give us the wheel for one month out of the year and let the prizes be great. Getting tired of seeing it anyways unless there is a serious chance for us to do something or the prizes have more variety.

    I feel like whoever deals with promotions know people raved about the wheel last time and are just going to keep throwing it at us while gradually lessening the prize hoping we don't notice.
    Gambling mechanics can be HUGE payouts for games with microtransactions such as Imperian with credits (although they aren't micro)

    I don't honestly mind them, but you have to at least dangle the carrot of a worthwhile prize or prizes in front of us and have had someone at least, who wins them, for them to be effective.  I don't think any one has won big from the wheel this time - no one I know of anyways.  And that's a jarring difference.  People last time this was around I saw won some pretty appreciable prizes last time.
    image
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    Well the problem is the payouts were too huge at first, so it got nerfed. But the nerf was too major. It is difficult to balance these sorts of things. Either its too good to be true or not worth bothering with.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Theophilus said:
    Well the problem is the payouts were too huge at first, so it got nerfed. But the nerf was too major. It is difficult to balance these sorts of things. Either its too good to be true or not worth bothering with.
    The big payouts have to be big, IMO, for the carrot to seem tantalizing.  The odds ... the odds are where most games get you.  The deck is always stacked in the House's favour.  But I will readily concede that's not easy to tweak the odds.  

    I know what one developer I'm good friends with at a F2P studio I shouldn't name does was write a simulator for X rolls with Y and Z odds for the big payouts to run the numbers to give them a good idea of what the _practical_ probabilities end up being over enough of a sample base to feel good.  Because as anyone who has played XCOM can tell you, the theoretical probability can be filthy, filthy lies.
    image
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    Just an fyi.. you use ARTIFACT TRADEIN rather than PROMO TRADEIN to trade in things like transmitters, certificates, etc. Just realized this--though it's only worth 3 credits for most of them.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    @Anette - I agree, the carrot must be dangled and that carrot should be tempting me like I haven't eaten in years. Now..

    @Theophilus - The first first wheel go 'round I heard of the prizes. I think they intended for the event to be rare and have said as much. I'm too lazy to dig up the forum posts, but I think Jeremy said the wheel won't be back for awhile or something. Don't quote me, but it was something along those lines.

    So, to you both I say if the wheel was only meant to be around for that one time and maybe super rare in the future, then yeah those prizes are absolutely on point. If it is going to be around every freaking month or every other month, then I understand why the prizes are as they are. And they leave it there in an attempt for us to sink credits into. The temptation is real, but this time around, it wasn't tempting enough for me to blindly throw credits at.

    If we will never see amazing prizes again at the cost of seeing the wheel more often, take it away and give it to us once a year.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 1,073 mod
    Theophilus said:
    Just an fyi.. you use ARTIFACT TRADEIN rather than PROMO TRADEIN to trade in things like transmitters, certificates, etc. Just realized this--though it's only worth 3 credits for most of them.
    For the record, the ability to trade them in this way IS INTENDED and you don't have to worry about us freaking out about it.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    @Eoghan - And no comment about our feedback on the wheel. What gives, bro?
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 1,073 mod
    No comment. (I personally am not involved in the specifics of promotions beyond implementing items that may be used as rewards).

    The only thing I can say is that we're aware of the thread and your feedback.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    Going to go ahead and post in this thread since it has to do with the wheel, but let's discuss this..

    ANNOUNCE NEWS #3587
    Date: 6/1/2017 at 22:38
    From: Jeremy
    To  : Everyone
    Subj: Wheel Change

    Unfortunately the trade-in values for the credit wheel spin is just too high. Specifically the
    assembly pieces. As such, and new pieces generated from the wheel will have a trade-in value of only
    1 credit.

    The only other option is to reduce the number of items the wheel rewards, which we do not want to do.

    This change will take place in the next few minutes. Pieces generated before this post will still
    trade in for 10 credits.
     
    Penned by my hand on the 24th of Vita, in the year 136 AM.

    The wheel is absolutely pointless to spin now with credits. Let's do a break down.

    Before this change, we were getting a guaranteed 1 assembly and one random item from the allotted prize pool. Which essentially made every spin 15 credits.

    Let's see how even with 10 credit trade in, the odds were so overwhelmingly against us, that it wasn't even worth it to spin at that point.

    These are tradein values:

    Ethereal item  - 1 credits
    Scepter gem - 1 credi
    Bomb - 3 credits
    Charm - 6 credits
    Map fragment - 10 credits
    Earring - 10 credits
    Emitter - 16 credits
    transmitter - 16 credits
    Beacon - 16 credits
    Certificate - 33 credits

    Just from glancing at this, you can see if you get anything below 16, you're at a loss already. And trust me, those bombs are dished out aplenty. These items are also one use items and the majority of people are going to trade them in because their use isn't worth 16 credits of value or even 1 credit value. 1 use kipup boots, yeah, okay..

    Now that the tradein value for assemblies are at 1 credit, if we're unlucky we are going to get 2 credit value in return and more commonly 4(bomb + assembly). Why would we pay 21-23 credits for a chance to win 250? The odds for that 250 prize is super low and we all know it. Hell, getting 50-100 is super low.

    Before anyone starts with the value of assembly pieces, let's be real here, these items have been out for well over a year and the market is saturated with them. We don't need more anklets, crowns, etc. They sit on the market and never sell. I can't even give away fully assembled pieces and it isn't for lack of trying. You are now dumping more worthless items into the game that people will not make use of.

    This wheel is now worst than the last wheel and that wheel was awful to the highest degree. What is the point in having this wheel if it is here to royally screw us over every time we spin? This isn't even gambling, this is just robbing us.

    The roulette wheel which is historically one of the worst odds in real casinos(American roulette at that) has better odds than this wheel of fortune. At least those odds are published. You guys don't even publish the wheel odds. At least when I bet 50K, I have a chance to win at minimum 50K back.

    If I put 25 credits in to spin with this wheel, I will consistently lose 23 credits each spin.

    Who balances these promotions? Do you guys not sit down and look at tradein values or market values of items that you are offering us? Why is every wheel progressively worst? I simply do not understand why you guys continue to nerf the wheel and push it off as if there is value here for us each time we spin.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 784 ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, that was a bad move for the wheel.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."

    (Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
  • ArakisArakis Member Posts: 163 ✭✭✭
    The wheel for credits is basically a money sink for the admins now. Smart people now won't waste their credits on the now even -more- useless garbage that assembly pieces have become. You would do better at this point going to Vegas and spinning a -real- roulette wheel, at least when you win there you get something you can actually use. In my case I was going to drop my 2754 bound that's been sitting around with nothing I wanted to buy. I'm just glad I waited till after work, since they implemented this while I was away. I won't be spending my bound credits, and honestly this has soured me on getting any website spins, let alone renewing my elite now that the spins I'd get only give you insulting refuse now.
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