I know what you are saying Akumu, and I think the timing did mess up more than one thing. It would have been different if the system had been put in place from the beginning, but since it came in like it did, there are inevitably going to be some hiccups along the way. I'm not convinced that class design necessitates uncurable affs because of autocuring. It's just a really easy way to design a class.
The game is still in the midst of a big conversion, so you might as well sit back and watch the show. The end result could be more palatable in the long run, but it's still hard to tell.
I'll just say that an important factor for me is that we're running a game here, not a coding competition. If something is crucial to be able to fully participate in the game (and competent curing arguably falls into this category), it should be provided by the game, rather than rely on third-party offerings. Furthermore, combat should be a competition between offensive capabilities of players, not between the specifics of their curing (although that will always play at least some role).
Speaking of Aetolia's version, I looked and theirs is running on 0.5s ticks these days, not 3s ones.
What about a credit competition? The amount of coding required to compete in the game has increased over time just as the required amount of credits required to compete has increased. I'm sure at one point in ire games everyone typed everything and little by little systems complexities increased over time and now here we are. Take out coding for healing and you still have a coding competition for offense, gonna provide that too?
If combat shouldn't be about the specifics of my opponents healing and my own, then why is the healing system so complex? Why do I have sooo many types of herbs to cure with? I think it's because it's suppose to be a game of chess. If how we cure shouldn't be a -huge- part of combat, why not have one herb type that cures a specified affliction? eat herb paralysis. That way, when I'm constantly spamming xeroderma, because my opponent is healing it before clumsy, weakness, slow salve, sensitivity, and metra, the maidenhair and kelp stack doesn't matter when I start hitting with paralysis and hemotoxin. FYI, I would stop playing the game if this happened. It's this game of chess that I love about 1 vs 1 combat and to say that healing shouldn't matter and only offensive capabilities, to me, is saying we should have one cure type (health) and we just bash on each other and who ever has the best damage output wins. At this point, I'd just go play WoW for the first time ever.
@akumu , I think you have a really valid point with the stupidity thing, but I think the amount of commands stupidity can do has been decreased to something like 8 total and that could easily be triggered...I think. Stupidity is a stupid mechanic and should go away anyway.
For me, I think g-bot needs to be better. It needs to include profession specific healers and defenses and it needs to be heavily customizable. The reason I think profession healers and defenses need to be included has to do with why I think g-bot is a good thing: game balance. For instance, my healing system didn't have a problem with paralysis and other people did. Why? Because they used an inferior healing system. Having everyone on the same plane gives a far better gauge of how a profession is really performing. Does that skill increase the defensive or offensive effectiveness too much? If we know everyone is on the same playing field, then everyone is likely to come to the same conclusions and we can tweak said profession accordingly.
As for customization, I think the hardest part of making a system is resource management. The actual prioritizing, to me, is the easiest part to code. It is the most important part however and I think it always should be. Being able to customize your priority gives the best of both worlds. All I have to code is an affliction tracker (only need two lines from imp now!) and the logic for checks on what conditions I want what certain afflictions to be cured over my more general priority set up. Then it's just informing g-bot at what points when I want an affliction cured over the more general priority.
It's this game of chess that I love about 1 vs 1 combat and to say that healing shouldn't matter and only offensive capabilities, to me, is saying we should have one cure type and we just bash on each other.
^^^, but I won't go so far as to say I'd stoop down to playing WoW
Anyone who hasn't competed 2000+ in arena in WoW hasn't really PvP'd in WoW. It's apples and oranges, but I find it hilarious how disparaging the players here are in their ignorance, where reaction time is so rarely a factor, as most people code to eliminate reaction time from the equation.
E: Oh and you know, the fact that game balance IS a factor, and that they have the money to maintain a more reliable state of inter class balance. No, there's no RP worth a damn, but the sheer factor of POSITIONING in combat is one most mudders can't adapt to quickly or easily.
Garryn and I have talked about this a little. Autocuring has uncovered some balancing issues and we are going to spend some time on. Affliction classes and autocuring is a large part, but not all of that. We have to finish a couple of other projects first and then we will probably start a discussion on that.
I am not going to lie, when I first heard how good autocuring was, I was not a fan. I spent a lot of time as a player making my own curing systemsand finding that to be a huge part of the game. However, the arguments in this thread have completely converted me.
This is a little old but it's a topic with a great deal of interest to me so I felt compelled to comment.
Having just come back from a break I see that autocuring has been improved, and I'm very happy. This is speaking as someone who over the years has made many systems in various languages as well as being in total defiance of any sort of server side curing. However, I've come to realize that having the freedom to focus more on offense, player skill, tactics, etc, without worrying so much about creating an ultimate system just to have any chance at all is a very good thing. Players can still code tons of things client side, I know I do. So anyways, autocuring is wonderful. Thank you Garryn.
This is a little old but it's a topic with a great deal of interest to me so I felt compelled to comment.
Having just come back from a break I see that autocuring has been improved, and I'm very happy. This is speaking as someone who over the years has made many systems in various languages as well as being in total defiance of any sort of server side curing. However, I've come to realize that having the freedom to focus more on offense, player skill, tactics, etc, without worrying so much about creating an ultimate system just to have any chance at all is a very good thing. Players can still code tons of things client side, I know I do. So anyways, autocuring is wonderful. Thank you Garryn.
Can? It's utterly required for upper tier combat. That's kind of my point with my earlier post. It keeps you alive, and now with custom prio's in addition to the existing force queuing functionality, if you code things client side, you see a huge difference between those guys and the guys that run around with stock gbot.
This is a little old but it's a topic with a great deal of interest to me so I felt compelled to comment.
Having just come back from a break I see that autocuring has been improved, and I'm very happy. This is speaking as someone who over the years has made many systems in various languages as well as being in total defiance of any sort of server side curing. However, I've come to realize that having the freedom to focus more on offense, player skill, tactics, etc, without worrying so much about creating an ultimate system just to have any chance at all is a very good thing. Players can still code tons of things client side, I know I do. So anyways, autocuring is wonderful. Thank you Garryn.
Can? It's utterly required for upper tier combat. That's kind of my point with my earlier post. It keeps you alive, and now with custom prio's in addition to the existing force queuing functionality, if you code things client side, you see a huge difference between those guys and the guys that run around with stock gbot.
Even bard's momentum setup requires a great deal of scripting before it becomes viable enough to fight. Some people have an advantage to how long it takes to slap resonance on, and I have had to accomidate using Cruel Lament more and it has worked fifty/fifty on people. It's quicker and more complex to set up, but since I had gone Runeguard for that bit of time, it taught me more and more tricks to coding in Nexus for Javascripting than ever before, and now I run with it like a champ.
I feel it is required for me to speak up because it seems the only opinions that have been put forward are from people can code. I love "playing the game" but i have no skill or knowledge in codeing past simple triggers, which i resently figured out how to use with any skill, and aliases. Autocuring has given me the opportunity to actually be in pvp and have half a chance from time to time, and has even encouraged me to start buying credits and trying to learn more to improve my odds. I'm not going to say that I am even a good combatant, but i find it nice that I have the opportunity to get in on combat.
Im completely new to Imperian so I have a few questions on this Autocuring as I read all the post and I cant seem to find my answer, so instead of doing a new post. here goes..
what DOESN'T Autocuring do? like, light pipes? refill pipes? writhe from impale? etc etc ....
I am planning on doing combat so would it be wise to build a new system, or customise the autocuring?
Also might not be for this post but since we on about curing, what other FREE Imperian systems are they? I'm on mudlet..
It does all those things. The problem with it, if you want to call it a problem, is that it doesn't adapt automatically to the situation. For example, against a Priest you might want to prioritize mana over health, but you HAVE to tell it to do it. The default curing priorities are good for most situations, but there are moments when you want it to cure something else first. There is also the issue of how it handles blind/dead defenses.
However, it is quite configurable nowadays. It isn't PERFECT, but you are capable of bridging that cap if you are willing to, certainly with a lot less effort that if you had done the whole system for yourself.
IMTS is available still I guess, it just needs to be updated to the current times. I could release a version of it (would have to code the changes, since haven't used it for years for healing), but I don't think there is a point since autocuring is available.
An important thing to note: Autocuring only lights pipes when you need to smoke something, not when they go out. That's usually ok, but can get you into trouble if you're fighting a class that can use aeon.
I am the righteous one... the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
It does not refill pipes. If you don't have the relevant cures it just ignores the afflictions and doesn't warn you. So it's up to you to make sure you're well stocked.
It does not refill pipes. If you don't have the relevant cures it just ignores the afflictions and doesn't warn you. So it's up to you to make sure you're well stocked.
I have the relevant herbs and its not refilling pipes.. is that a setting? Like if I turn rebounding on.. and it uses it 10 times it wont refill it...
example below ------------------------------------------------------
*********************************[ Pipe List ]********************************* Pipe Herb Puffs Months Left ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pipe223274 laurel 9 124 pipe223809 (empty) (none) 124 pipe224302 lovage 2 124 ******************************************************************************* H:262 M:324 <eb db> Your aura of weapons rebounding disappears. You have lost the anti-weapon field defence. You thrust your arm out, striking at yourself. You connect! Damage Taken: 9 blunt (raw damage: 10) Balance Taken: 3.80s H:253 M:324 <e- db> You have recovered balance. H:253 M:324 <eb db> Health Gain: 9 H:262 M:324 <eb db> look
you made it sound like if you dont have the correct cures / eg correct herbs in the rlift, it wont refill. its why I did the post about it not refilling...
Thanks tho, once I get a figure out of what each cure does etc I'm going to write my own system
<730/730h(100) 338/340m(99) 66.18x <eb> <db> 59E 0b <0> HELP HEALINGLIST 13.8 A list of healing herbs, plants and salves. (snip)
LAUREL This herb can be smoked to cure several dangerous afflictions such as hellsight, aeon, curses, and epilepsy.
LINSEED Smoking the linseed will provide an anti-weapon field that lasts until it is taken down by an opponent or until you perform an aggressive action. The anti-weapon field will cause the weapons of your opponent to bounce back at him. When eaten, this gives you the deathsight.
LOVAGE LEAVES When smoked these leaves will cure the dishonour affliction and the slickness afflictions.
You can also look at AFFLICTION LIST and AFFLICTION SHOW <affliction>
I am the righteous one... the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
I was wondering if there is a way to set up the mindseye tattoo through this system? It makes me blind and deaf, but it doesn't queue up the mindseye tattoo for me. Thoughts?
I was wondering if there is a way to set up the mindseye tattoo through this system? It makes me blind and deaf, but it doesn't queue up the mindseye tattoo for me. Thoughts?
Var = mindseye, Use DEF RAW, trigger mindseye, if mindseye == false (queue eq touch mindseye tattoo)
Or something along those lines. Otherwise autocuring doesn't handle defs that take balance.
Autodeffing isn't good if you're into combat. Best way, IMO, to set things up. Code something that shows which sets are missing when you DEF. Code it to show all defs in a table and color code them to know which you are missing and which are draining mana/health. Code an alias to put up a single missing def. Code an alias to put up each def that you are missing on balance.
Autocuring was a band-aid for the overcomplicated affliction curing, or you could equally say autocuring made the current curing scenario viable.
Either way, the problem is that the current cures are outdated compared to the vast breadth of afflictions available. Worse yet, a good portion of afflictions are debilitating, so one can only afford a few mistakes before falling out of the fight completely.
All G-bot did was enshrine an already decaying system.
And before people say "lern 2 code," I have coded my own curing system before, and it wasn't great. It did let me fight and escape, and it was damned fun to write.
But since I've returned, I haven't bothered making a full system.
Biggest reason? Getting all the affliction messages. It either requires hours begging for the time of allies or hours begging for the time of enemies to fight in the arena. The latter of which can be amazingly unproductive.
Or you could just go CONFIG AFFMESSAGES ON, and trigger from those helpful messages
You are afflicted with paralysis. You have cured paralysis.
I'm baffled about someone hating so much on autocuring, not from the POV of not being able to steamroll people (at least from what I understand), but because they say it is detrimental to the game. Note, it is not perfect, but it is just great to let someone join in some pummeling of enemies.
Comments
I know what you are saying Akumu, and I think the timing did mess up more than one thing. It would have been different if the system had been put in place from the beginning, but since it came in like it did, there are inevitably going to be some hiccups along the way. I'm not convinced that class design necessitates uncurable affs because of autocuring. It's just a really easy way to design a class.
The game is still in the midst of a big conversion, so you might as well sit back and watch the show. The end result could be more palatable in the long run, but it's still hard to tell.
If combat shouldn't be about the specifics of my opponents healing and my own, then why is the healing system so complex? Why do I have sooo many types of herbs to cure with? I think it's because it's suppose to be a game of chess. If how we cure shouldn't be a -huge- part of combat, why not have one herb type that cures a specified affliction? eat herb paralysis. That way, when I'm constantly spamming xeroderma, because my opponent is healing it before clumsy, weakness, slow salve, sensitivity, and metra, the maidenhair and kelp stack doesn't matter when I start hitting with paralysis and hemotoxin. FYI, I would stop playing the game if this happened. It's this game of chess that I love about 1 vs 1 combat and to say that healing shouldn't matter and only offensive capabilities, to me, is saying we should have one cure type (health) and we just bash on each other and who ever has the best damage output wins. At this point, I'd just go play WoW for the first time ever.
@akumu , I think you have a really valid point with the stupidity thing, but I think the amount of commands stupidity can do has been decreased to something like 8 total and that could easily be triggered...I think. Stupidity is a stupid mechanic and should go away anyway.
For me, I think g-bot needs to be better. It needs to include profession specific healers and defenses and it needs to be heavily customizable. The reason I think profession healers and defenses need to be included has to do with why I think g-bot is a good thing: game balance. For instance, my healing system didn't have a problem with paralysis and other people did. Why? Because they used an inferior healing system. Having everyone on the same plane gives a far better gauge of how a profession is really performing. Does that skill increase the defensive or offensive effectiveness too much? If we know everyone is on the same playing field, then everyone is likely to come to the same conclusions and we can tweak said profession accordingly.
As for customization, I think the hardest part of making a system is resource management. The actual prioritizing, to me, is the easiest part to code. It is the most important part however and I think it always should be. Being able to customize your priority gives the best of both worlds. All I have to code is an affliction tracker (only need two lines from imp now!) and the logic for checks on what conditions I want what certain afflictions to be cured over my more general priority set up. Then it's just informing g-bot at what points when I want an affliction cured over the more general priority.
Having just come back from a break I see that autocuring has been improved, and I'm very happy. This is speaking as someone who over the years has made many systems in various languages as well as being in total defiance of any sort of server side curing. However, I've come to realize that having the freedom to focus more on offense, player skill, tactics, etc, without worrying so much about creating an ultimate system just to have any chance at all is a very good thing. Players can still code tons of things client side, I know I do. So anyways, autocuring is wonderful. Thank you Garryn.
Even bard's momentum setup requires a great deal of scripting before it becomes viable enough to fight. Some people have an advantage to how long it takes to slap resonance on, and I have had to accomidate using Cruel Lament more and it has worked fifty/fifty on people. It's quicker and more complex to set up, but since I had gone Runeguard for that bit of time, it taught me more and more tricks to coding in Nexus for Javascripting than ever before, and now I run with it like a champ.
what DOESN'T Autocuring do? like, light pipes? refill pipes? writhe from impale? etc etc ....
I am planning on doing combat so would it be wise to build a new system, or customise the autocuring?
Also might not be for this post but since we on about curing, what other FREE Imperian systems are they? I'm on mudlet..
thanks in Advance!
However, it is quite configurable nowadays. It isn't PERFECT, but you are capable of bridging that cap if you are willing to, certainly with a lot less effort that if you had done the whole system for yourself.
IMTS is available still I guess, it just needs to be updated to the current times. I could release a version of it (would have to code the changes, since haven't used it for years for healing), but I don't think there is a point since autocuring is available.
Thanks for the info tho
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
example below
------------------------------------------------------
*********************************[ Pipe List ]*********************************
Pipe Herb Puffs Months Left
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pipe223274 laurel 9 124
pipe223809 (empty) (none) 124
pipe224302 lovage 2 124
*******************************************************************************
H:262 M:324 <eb db>
Your aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
You have lost the anti-weapon field defence.
You thrust your arm out, striking at yourself.
You connect!
Damage Taken: 9 blunt (raw damage: 10)
Balance Taken: 3.80s
H:253 M:324 <e- db>
You have recovered balance.
H:253 M:324 <eb db>
Health Gain: 9
H:262 M:324 <eb db> look
Thanks tho, once I get a figure out of what each cure does etc I'm going to write my own system
<730/730h(100) 338/340m(99) 66.18x <eb> <db> 59E 0b <0> HELP HEALINGLIST
13.8 A list of healing herbs, plants and salves.
(snip)
LAUREL
This herb can be smoked to cure several dangerous afflictions such as
hellsight, aeon, curses, and epilepsy.
LINSEED
Smoking the linseed will provide an anti-weapon field that lasts until
it is taken down by an opponent or until you perform an aggressive
action. The anti-weapon field will cause the weapons of your opponent to
bounce back at him. When eaten, this gives you the deathsight.
LOVAGE LEAVES
When smoked these leaves will cure the dishonour affliction and the
slickness afflictions.
You can also look at AFFLICTION LIST and AFFLICTION SHOW <affliction>
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
^^ This game have that too.. thanks so much
Or something along those lines. Otherwise autocuring doesn't handle defs that take balance.
I also think it was horrible for the game.
Autocuring was a band-aid for the overcomplicated affliction curing, or you could equally say autocuring made the current curing scenario viable.
Either way, the problem is that the current cures are outdated compared to the vast breadth of afflictions available. Worse yet, a good portion of afflictions are debilitating, so one can only afford a few mistakes before falling out of the fight completely.
All G-bot did was enshrine an already decaying system.
And before people say "lern 2 code," I have coded my own curing system before, and it wasn't great. It did let me fight and escape, and it was damned fun to write.
But since I've returned, I haven't bothered making a full system.
Biggest reason? Getting all the affliction messages. It either requires hours begging for the time of allies or hours begging for the time of enemies to fight in the arena. The latter of which can be amazingly unproductive.
You are afflicted with paralysis.
You have cured paralysis.
I'm baffled about someone hating so much on autocuring, not from the POV of not being able to steamroll people (at least from what I understand), but because they say it is detrimental to the game. Note, it is not perfect, but it is just great to let someone join in some pummeling of enemies.