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Death in Imperian

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  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    2-3 minute would make the first shardfall battle be what decides who dominates the entire thing.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • AulaniAulani Member Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    Would it also prevent being attacked? Also would it prevent doing all aggressive actions, or only actual attacks?

    If I die in a raid, come back in my city then get ganked by the raiders again while being unable to attack back, that would suck. But if they can't attack me, it leads to abuse and running into a group of enemies to 'scout' or in some people's case, mouth off.
  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin
    You would still be attackable, and the ability to remain in a safe room would likewise remain. Only actual attacks would be prevented. Essentially this is a slightly altered variant of the "increased PK damage / reduced health" suggestion.

    Not sure why this would affect shard battles, isn't getting out of Dis similarly long currently?
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Garryn said:
    You would still be attackable, and the ability to remain in a safe room would likewise remain. Only actual attacks would be prevented. Essentially this is a slightly altered variant of the "increased PK damage / reduced health" suggestion.

    Not sure why this would affect shard battles, isn't getting out of Dis similarly long currently?
    I don't think it takes me 2 - 3 minutes to escape Dis, but I could be telling total lies.

    Also, there's nothing more frustrating than being alive and being told you aren't allowed to have fun. That just sucks.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nyrroth with a gossamer anchor is the fastest reliable way out of Dis right now, aside from the swim-the-river soulstones, and that's at ~112 seconds to get out of Dis.


    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin
    Sarrius said:
    Also, there's nothing more frustrating than being alive and being told you aren't allowed to have fun. That just sucks.
    Ultimately, this is exactly the problem that we are attempting to solve. Long death timers are boring, so we want to shorten them. This is fine for bashing deaths, but letting players rejoin a fight in 30 seconds turns that fight into an attrition battle which is not fun for anyone. There may be other solutions that we haven't thought of yet, but for now the only choice is between a hard block (longer death timer in PK deaths, grace, or pacifism), or a soft block (a penalty so severe that even though you -can- go rejoin that fight, you most likely won't).
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 487 ✭✭✭
    how about a two minute wait period in Dis then you are teleported to your city gate?
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    That will make me alt-tab while it goes through. Then the problem won't be coordinating to take the ferry, but 'hey, we are out, is everyone awake?'
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 487 ✭✭✭
    well they are trying to do something about shortening the time in dis. But I feel like 30 seconds is way too short.
  • SamSam Member Posts: 4
    What about a 10-15% increase for 2-3 minutes that comes with a 10 minute timer and if you die again in that timer the effect stacks up to a certain level? I know getting zerged repeatedly is not ideal but when i'm in a shardfall or something and we win the first fight I generally want them to come back and fight again. This would keep the fight going for a while but the debuff would eventually catch up with them and they would have to wait it out after a few attempts. Maybe just give them the 10 minute timer the first go around so they don't take extra damage the first time they come back.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    That is not a bad idea. I will think about that one.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    edited August 2013
    So right now I am leaning toward this.
    1. 10 to 30 second rez to a portal room. (as detailed above)
    2. If you die in PvP, you will have a 10% max health malus for 3 minutes.
    3. Die again in that 3 minutes and you will lose another 10% (and so on). The timer resets as well.
    4. After 3 minutes, it clears, even if you manage to get to a 90% malus.
    Allows people to get right back to playing. Allows for some PvP zerging if desired. Slows the zergs down if they suck at it.

    Thoughts?
  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeremy said:
    So right now I am leaning toward this.
    1. 10 to 30 second rez to a portal room. (as detailed above)
    2. If you die in PvP, you will have a 10% max health malus for 3 minutes.
    3. Die again in that 3 minutes and you will lose another 10% (and so on). The timer resets as well.
    4. After 3 minutes, it clears, even if you manage to get to a 90% malus.
    Allows people to get right back to playing. Allows for some PvP zerging if desired. Slows the zergs down if they suck at it.

    Thoughts?
    Lionas said:
    Rather than reduced health, just increase damage from players. That way you can get back into PVE without a delay, but you have to think twice about PVP.

    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jeremy said:
    So right now I am leaning toward this.
    1. 10 to 30 second rez to a portal room. (as detailed above)
    2. If you die in PvP, you will have a 10% max health malus for 3 minutes.
    3. Die again in that 3 minutes and you will lose another 10% (and so on). The timer resets as well.
    4. After 3 minutes, it clears, even if you manage to get to a 90% malus.
    Allows people to get right back to playing. Allows for some PvP zerging if desired. Slows the zergs down if they suck at it.

    Thoughts?
    I like all this plus  what Lio suggested about incerased damage from players rather than reduced health. 

    Also please make the portal room circle specific, not city specific.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013

    I'm really not a fan of that. 10% health loss? Way too low.

    I have 670 health. So after one death, I have 603. Two deaths, 536. Three, 469. 4 deaths, 402.

    It takes me 4 deaths to even get my foot into the territory of Significant Drawback, and even then I'm still above 400. That's 4 times that the enemy has to kill me before I even really become seriously hindered... and after 4 deaths I STILL have more health than an Intelligent Aspect. You're gonna have to kill me FIVE times to make me consider sitting out. Six times when you count my starburst tattoo. Maybe seven times, quite possibly 8-9, since I'll be able to touch starburst again multiple times in the midst of all that.

    That doesn't allow PvP zerging if desired. That makes PvP zerging absolutely positively 100% mandatory and changes the game hugely. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭✭
    What if PvP XP loss was reintroduced with X amount of deaths within a certain amount of time?
  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gurn said:
    What if PvP XP loss was reintroduced with X amount of deaths within a certain amount of time?
    That only disincentives people who care about xp.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why not make each death in a certain window make your trip through the respawn sequence longer?
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    edited August 2013
    After I posted, I realized that I had wanted to increase damage by 10% to a recently rezzed player, not decrease max health.

    Edit: Maybe by 25% actually. 
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Sarrius said:
    Why not make each death in a certain window make your trip through the respawn sequence longer?
    Still the issue of making bashing not fun, would have to make this Player Kills only.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeremy said:
    After I posted, I realized that I had wanted to increase damage by 10% to a recently rezzed player, not decrease max health.

    Edit: Maybe by 25% actually. 

    25% would be way better. But even that's not enough. Look at it this way:

    I've got 670 health. When I'm taking 25% more damage I've got a very rough estimate of 536 effective health, which is to say that while you had to deal 670 damage to kill me before the debuff, now you have to deal 536 damage to me to reach that 670 mark. It's a horrible estimate, especially because healing and attacks are still based off of the old percentage, but it's just meant to demonstrate that I'm still going to roll into battle combat effective. 

    I'd prefer to go up to 33%, where strychnine is. Hell, where I really want to start is 100% and have it tick down by 25% every 30 seconds.

    And I'd like to give repeated deaths a cost to you. An actual cost of something other than time, though I guess I'd be okay with mandatory pacifism for a fairly long length of time. Something to prevent things like "I tried to capture Septus' monolith. It takes longer than 30 seconds to capture Septus' monolith. He's coming back at maximum penalty, repeatedly, to just poke me and make me stop capturing it in the hopes that I have to log off before he does." Aulani and I once fought with Septus and Azefel for ~2 hours over control of a monolith. He will totally do that. He will not be alone. 

    Zerging right back into the fight right after your 10-30 second trip to the portal room should be something that's risky, something that you do because that one hit you get off and that one hit that you take in the place of an ally might win a clutch battle and take an Obelisk or a CTF or something, and it's worth the attempt. 

    It should not be something that you do in absolutely every single shardfall because, well, why not? There's no penalty for dying, so it's not like rushing into battle at +100% damage taken actually costs you anything. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Yeah, I am not opposed to increasing damage. However, I am not a fan of pacifism, that just makes things not fun.
  • CaelyaCaelya Member Posts: 383 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013
    You could increase balance/equilibrium time for a newly-risen player who had fallen to PvP for whatever amount of time seems reasonable, with the justification that the trauma of traveling through Dis and back to their body has temporarily thrown their reflexes out of whack. That way, you can get right back into combat, if you're super desperate to do so, but you won't be nearly as effective as if you'd waited a minute or two or however long.

    This could be combined with some other malus if it's deemed not good enough, though I also like the idea of there being a small pool of negatives that are randomly assigned to you when you return to life. In that way, you can't really predict how a returning victim will behave, and you won't necessarily be completely nerfed out for a few more minutes than usual.

  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013
    Caelya may be on to something. We've been having issues with the new no xp loss system and zerging, what if you accrued some sort of 'death penalty' per death that decayed over time? If you had x number of points you pick up maluses?

    The problem I foresee here, is if I'm defending against a greater invasion force. I'm going to get knocked out of the fights pretty quickly and it's just going to feed on itself. People only raid when they have an advantage and they're generally going to rack kills up really quickly. It's kind of "meh" if I'm going to be penalized.

    Hmm, maybe you could do "death penalty points" based on where you die (in pvp)?

    If it's neutral you get x.
    If it's your territory you get like .5(x)
    If it's in enemy territory you get 2-3x
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    That sounds reasonable. Let me mull it over.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013
    Level 1:
    Sip/damage received/damage dealt malus.

    Level 2:
    2x level 1

    Level 3: 
    Balance malus/eq malus

    Level 4:
    Stat malus

    Level 5: 
    Penalty box grace. STOP DYING. STEP AWAY. HAVE A COKE AND A SMILE.
    -Inability to file issues for 2m?
  • MenochMenoch Member Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    Something something something if you've taken damage from another person in x amount of time then this penalty is still incurred. Lookin at you mushroom sigils.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why waste time building a system around an exploit? Remove the exploit.

    Mushroom sigils no longer do damage. presto.
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    He will just use engineering bombs then.

    It looks like a trick that Mena can use however.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, only Mena will die to one bomb...and only that bomb.
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