They even believe PVE is more fun the PVP. PVE pulls more people than PVP.
I haven't been here long enough to know the numbers, but I believe you. I would argue that if PvP were more balanced and accessible, a great majority of this PvE enjoying demographic would also prefer PvP. I don't know if that's a safe assumption to make, but given that players can't use 90% of their skills in PvE I think the argument has fairly solid ground.
Many of those are all minor changes. Deadeyes also picked up lich, which balanced out the loss of speed. Tanking was reduced with the caveat and claim that you could suggest pve only defenses. Most of the major losses of tanking were replaced (see: confutation). Counterpoint: Predator. Terrible PVP class leads from AM made that class the god of bashing and it has yet to be rectified because "aint hurting nobody."
It's far more common for PvP concerns to override PvE ones than the other way around.
And this could widely be regarded as a terrible decision. Pvp systems were dumped on the populous with little or no regard to the environment or the story line and the game suffered for it. Systems like obelisks also exclude things like actually fighting. Actually, you can't be on the 'more storyline' bandwagon and be on the 'put pvp first' bandwagon. Pvp is a pretty weak draw. You'll get more people with storyline and pve and convert them to pvp over time. max health at level 0 just reinforces derp pvp sandbox, which is bad.
@Edric Imperian is more balanced than it's ever been and PVP is still the minority by a large margin. Sure, more people participate sporadically, but you don't see the long term involvement you'd expect because for a lot of people, pvp just doesn't do it for them. I'd venture as guess to why because in Lord of the Rings, you only had to kill Sauron once. In my experience, your mouth breathing pvp antagonists are like those stupid bouncy clowns. You dropkick them into Dis and they bounce right back. Then they're claiming fresh new pk reasons and itching to be a pain in the **** with renewed vigor. PVP doesn't solve anything for 98% of the game.
Honest to (Pick your deity), but I enjoy bashing. Its visceral, easy to achieve, and builds gains.
To seek to remove, or trivialise it, seeks to advantage one group while disadvantaging the other.
Thank you! I was hoping somebody from that demographic trolled around in the forums with the rest of us. We've gone off on a bit of a tangent, but you'll notice that originally the topic was about making PvE more engaging, particularly for people who prefer (or even enjoy) that aspect of the game. Sometimes, that's me. With PvP one side by definition has to lose. If I feel like getting some guaranteed "wins" in, obliterating a village of NPCs sometimes gets the job done.
Sporadically and organically emerging areas that last 1-2 weeks with level 110 mobs that need to be cleared by any one faction and defended by the other; winning (after 1-2 weeks) gives you those ouroboros points.
Mobs only spawn when online players per circle > 10.
Ahkan said: Actually, you can't be on the 'more storyline' bandwagon and be on the 'put pvp first' bandwagon.
No moreso than you can be on both the 'more storyline' bandwagon and the 'put PVE first' bandwagon.. assuming you are in an alternate reality where any of these statements are correct, which we aren't. It's not like there's a three way tug of war where only one side can win. More storyline does not necessarily mean less of other content, any moreso than good PVE or PVP content necessarily has to diminish the story. I mean, if anything, PVP and storyline are inextricably connected in Imperian in a way no other subsystems really are: PVP requires reasons to function outside of the fenced off playgrounds like shardfalls, and conflict storylines are the easiest way to generate some.
As for the rest? Let's not forget how one of the largest PVP-related changes, one that drove a massive wedge into the game's populace and was a huge player in inducing stagnation where there should have been flourishing growth.. was entirely and thoroughly backed by the storyline, to the point that it was effectively a no-brainer and was integrated nearly seamlessly: Circles.
Good story can't hide or excuse bad design. Good story can only enhance good design. Good design can't redeem bad story. Bad design can make bad story doubly awful and induce the sort of mass 'log out and wait for it to blow over' that we've seen too many times before.
I never realised how many people play Imperian for PvE.
Those aren't PvErs. They are future PvPrs. Ask Mercer.
I can only think that Mercer wants to live a life of adventure and glory like his mercs. Though the day he complains about being stabbed to death even though he thought he was in the back left row, we will have issues.
“We abjure labels. We fight for money and an indefinable pride. The politics, the ethics, the moralities, are irrelevant."
2014/07/02 03:41:29 - Mercer has been slain by Komatata. 2014/07/02 03:58:21 - Septus has been slain by Mercer. 2014/07/02 04:16:02 - Mercer has been slain by Khizan. 2014/07/02 04:16:15 - Mercer has been slain by Khizan. 2014/07/02 04:25:32 - Komatata has been slain by Mercer. 2014/07/02 04:32:08 - Khizan has been slain by Mercer. 2014/07/02 04:46:18 - Kliko has been slain by Mercer. 2014/07/02 05:01:29 - Septus has been slain by Mercer. 2014/07/02 05:06:18 - Kliko has been slain by Mercer. 2014/07/02 05:13:40 - Mercer has been slain by Septus.
I never realised how many people play Imperian for PvE.
Those aren't PvErs. They are future PvPrs. Ask Mercer.
I can only think that Mercer wants to live a life of adventure and glory like his mercs. Though the day he complains about being stabbed to death even though he thought he was in the back left row, we will have issues.
I don't think you'll have to worry about me complaining
Circles were an amazing thing for the game. The only point that really should have been argued is game balance. There was no way to balance a demonic-magick-AM class. Sure, it put a lot of abusive play styles to bed (awkward!) but it actually set the stage for someone who tried (Garryn) to balance the game. We also have to place the blame on the populace abusing the 'circle' ruling to make power plays (awkward!) that exacerbated an already bad situation (more awkward!).
At this point, I think pvpers are the minority, as vocal as they may be. I'd actually be really curious to see if pvpers are the main financial draw for this game. We rode the PVP, PVP, PVP horse into the ground and it got us into the rut that we find ourselves in. The "Player driven" movement boiled down to froth-at-the-mouth-pk (circa 2006) and we ended up with a game based solely on 3hr pk sessions where everyone afked in between with 0 story line, 0 player involvement.
To tie this all up, level 100 for max health is dumb. Everyone seems to agree on this point. Dropping it below 80 to "allow people to join pvp earlier" (which isn't a problem) is equally bad. Pvp is sporadic, unreliable, and often unrewarding for most people. They'll get more from social interaction with guilds through bashing trips, global bosses, advancement systems, and the overall PVE environment than they will in PVP. Somewhere between 80-90 is a happy medium, as it lets you accumulate enough credits to get a good skill and bounce around the world and interact with it a little more than "Level 5, 600h strong statpack reporting for goon squad duty."
"They'll get more from social interaction with guilds through bashing trips, global bosses, advancement systems, and the overall PVE environment than they will in PVP."
I agree, but I think it would be cool if we could also add PvP into that mix. I've only been in the Crusaders, but I feel like they are a good example of how working that in can happen.
"Level 5, 600h strong statpack reporting for goon squad duty."
I'd like to know why this is a problem. Is it because then every fight just turns into a gigantic slugfest where the team with more numbers pressing F1 will always win? I'm not challenging the idea that this can be a bad thing, I'd just like to understand the goon squad stigma.
Comments
No moreso than you can be on both the 'more storyline' bandwagon and the 'put PVE first' bandwagon.. assuming you are in an alternate reality where any of these statements are correct, which we aren't. It's not like there's a three way tug of war where only one side can win. More storyline does not necessarily mean less of other content, any moreso than good PVE or PVP content necessarily has to diminish the story. I mean, if anything, PVP and storyline are inextricably connected in Imperian in a way no other subsystems really are: PVP requires reasons to function outside of the fenced off playgrounds like shardfalls, and conflict storylines are the easiest way to generate some.
As for the rest? Let's not forget how one of the largest PVP-related changes, one that drove a massive wedge into the game's populace and was a huge player in inducing stagnation where there should have been flourishing growth.. was entirely and thoroughly backed by the storyline, to the point that it was effectively a no-brainer and was integrated nearly seamlessly: Circles.
Good story can't hide or excuse bad design. Good story can only enhance good design. Good design can't redeem bad story. Bad design can make bad story doubly awful and induce the sort of mass 'log out and wait for it to blow over' that we've seen too many times before.
2014/07/02 03:58:21 - Septus has been slain by Mercer.
2014/07/02 04:16:02 - Mercer has been slain by Khizan.
2014/07/02 04:16:15 - Mercer has been slain by Khizan.
2014/07/02 04:25:32 - Komatata has been slain by Mercer.
2014/07/02 04:32:08 - Khizan has been slain by Mercer.
2014/07/02 04:46:18 - Kliko has been slain by Mercer.
2014/07/02 05:01:29 - Septus has been slain by Mercer.
2014/07/02 05:06:18 - Kliko has been slain by Mercer.
2014/07/02 05:13:40 - Mercer has been slain by Septus.
I don't think you'll have to worry about me complaining
I agree, but I think it would be cool if we could also add PvP into that mix. I've only been in the Crusaders, but I feel like they are a good example of how working that in can happen.
"Level 5, 600h strong statpack reporting for goon squad duty."
I'd like to know why this is a problem. Is it because then every fight just turns into a gigantic slugfest where the team with more numbers pressing F1 will always win? I'm not challenging the idea that this can be a bad thing, I'd just like to understand the goon squad stigma.