I wasn't about to suggest that you're all wrong. If anything, you all have exceptionally valid points among your complaints. It's the us-vs-them nature of it that tickles me (and makes me sad).
rI'm not saying that Demonic is the best right now, but I assure you that there are people who care and try hard to make a really crappy situation work (and they're not all Khandavan). There only reward is to be dumped on by retarded forum posturing and bland events that deliberately side-step any meaningful role play that relates to demonic.
I'm actually really glad that you shared this. I have kinda felt the same way about magic since... forever. It makes me feel much better to know that were not the only faction that feels that way.
Honestly, the game is in a pretty interesting state of flux. A lot of the stuff going on needs to happen and is nothing but a solid improvement for the game. The problem is that this change is painfully gradual and seems to be running on an almost geologic time scale. It seems as if very little is actually written down or solidified into any coherent time table.
The game has finally acknowledged or chosen to focus on building the game around team combat. It's good for the game because it is the most inclusive and thus the most profitable. The problems are that two circles have a higher density of 100% affliction classes and one circle is 100% damage classes. That's a really tricky scenario to balance, especially when you have very loud, very obtuse cogs being incredibly (and obsessively) squeaky. That problem isn't going to fix itself over night, especially when you realize that incorporating new hybrid affliction/damage skills is a redesign that has a time table of 3-6 months per skill set. Never mind the fact that the designer/coder is also juggling 180 other things for the game and the company. Class leads really aren't helping this because more often than not, people want sharks, lasers and sharks with lasers and torpedoes, despite the fact they're in a good spot.
It's really easy to slip into the doldrums, especially in Imperian, since the story line and improvements are moving at a glacial pace. Since it's a game, you can really step aside and cease to be involved in things that you don't have fun doing. If that's pk, don't feel obligated to shard fall. There will always be more. Players follow the flavor of the month and always have from Achaea to Aetolia to Imperian and to Lusternia. I'm pretty sure when Summoners are released, we'll get a flux of new characters and balance-chasers to face roll Demonic into prominence, only to be supplanted by the next class revamp in six months to a year. You're already seeing people pre-preemptively transfer (see above) for this reason. The balance of power in Imperian is always cyclical. A few years ago it was Demonic for a long period of time, then it switched to Magick and now it's solidly locked in on AM. It'll change soon enough, you just have to make sure you don't get to pissed off to quit again when you're not the lucky one.
I wasn't about to suggest that you're all wrong. If anything, you all have exceptionally valid points among your complaints. It's the us-vs-them nature of it that tickles me (and makes me sad).
I'm always floored by that, considering what a niche hobby MUDs are these days. You'd figure people would band together to create a more enjoyable atmosphere that not only retains people, but invites new ones to join in. That's just not the case a lot of the time, and it's nuts. You can be enemies in-game and be reasonable people on the forums.
‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
Every player, for the most part, feels that his circle is being neglected or abused and that at least one of the others is favored by Garryn/Jesse/Jeremy.
Naturally, the only solution is to buff the jeebus out of all of you.
Interestingly enough, for once I actually feel like magick is getting at least our share in terms of mechanical development, if not a bit of favor. In balance we still have a ways to go simply because of how bad things were before, but I have high hopes for the future.
The place I really feel starved, though, is in RP. For a long time, but especially since the Khandava swap, I've felt like not only are we not getting positive attention in events, but we no longer even have plot hooks from which events could spawn. The major driving element of Imperians metaplot for some time has been oh noez demons, and the people who crusade against those demons. Guess I'd just like to see magic take the initiative for once, though I don't know how much of that is just a lack of orgrequests coming in.
I'm pretty sure when Summoners are released, we'll get a flux of new characters and balance-chasers to face roll Demonic into prominence, only to be supplanted by the next class revamp in six months to a year. You're already seeing people pre-preemptively transfer (see above) for this reason. The balance of power in Imperian is always cyclical. A few years ago it was Demonic for a long period of time, then it switched to Magick and now it's solidly locked in on AM. It'll change soon enough, you just have to make sure you don't get to pissed off to quit again when you're not the lucky one.
If the Druid/Hunter releases didn't cause a lasting phase shift, then this one won't either - not purely based on class revamps anyway. Any gains Demonic might make in the next few months it'll have to win the hard way. I don't expect a single class revamp to hand it to anyone on a plate.
I'm pretty sure when Summoners are released, we'll get a flux of new characters and balance-chasers to face roll Demonic into prominence, only to be supplanted by the next class revamp in six months to a year. You're already seeing people pre-preemptively transfer (see above) for this reason. The balance of power in Imperian is always cyclical. A few years ago it was Demonic for a long period of time, then it switched to Magick and now it's solidly locked in on AM. It'll change soon enough, you just have to make sure you don't get to pissed off to quit again when you're not the lucky one.
If the Druid/Hunter releases didn't cause a lasting phase shift, then this one won't either - not purely based on class revamps anyway. Any gains Demonic might make in the next few months it'll have to win the hard way. I don't expect a single class revamp to hand it to anyone on a plate.
I guess we're playing a different game (shocker). There's always a surge in populations as people chase the new shinies then there's the outflow as people realize that figuring out a new class is hard, can't make a toxin tracker or it wasn't their cup of tea. Khandava/Demonic saw it with assassin and defiler. Personally, I saw it in pk bumping into outriders/druids/hunters. Though I admit, most of them switched to something else, especially druids (which makes no sense, but w/e). Maybe you're arguing there's no lasting population shift? That's still weird because people generally stay in that circle, they just pick up a different class, like Azefel. Most of the 'high impact' veteran transfers happen after it's been established that there's things to exploit.
I think it's important to point out the lol surge to AM that happened on the heals of a windfall of awesome upgrades like classleads, predator, outrider. It wasn't because it was a fun place to be. It's where the new hotness was.
At the end of the day, we're probably going to have to agree to disagree. Let's call it bias.
rI'm not saying that Demonic is the best right now, but I assure you that there are people who care and try hard to make a really crappy situation work (and they're not all Khandavan). There only reward is to be dumped on by retarded forum posturing and bland events that deliberately side-step any meaningful role play that relates to demonic.
I'm actually really glad that you shared this. I have kinda felt the same way about magic since... forever. It makes me feel much better to know that were not the only faction that feels that way.
As one of the folks on the receiving end of a great deal of player feedback, I have to say that this is one of the most amusing and challenging trends. Every player, for the most part, feels that his circle is being neglected or abused and that at least one of the others is favored by Garryn/Jesse/Jeremy.
Naturally, the only solution is to buff the jeebus out of all of you.
I feel like the combat imbalance is often times exaggerated, but when it comes to Magick and Demonic complaining about the lack of a meaningful or even cohesive narrative, they're both usually spot on.
Honestly, few Magick fighters constantly work together to research amd practice group combat situations and protection drills.
I guess we're playing a different game (shocker). There's always a surge in populations as people chase the new shinies then there's the outflow as people realize that figuring out a new class is hard, can't make a toxin tracker or it wasn't their cup of tea. Khandava/Demonic saw it with assassin and defiler. Personally, I saw it in pk bumping into outriders/druids/hunters. Though I admit, most of them switched to something else, especially druids (which makes no sense, but w/e). Maybe you're arguing there's no lasting population shift? That's still weird because people generally stay in that circle, they just pick up a different class, like Azefel. Most of the 'high impact' veteran transfers happen after it's been established that there's things to exploit.
I think it's important to point out the lol surge to AM that happened on the heals of a windfall of awesome upgrades like classleads, predator, outrider. It wasn't because it was a fun place to be. It's where the new hotness was.
At the end of the day, we're probably going to agree to disagree. Let's call it bias.
That feels like revisionist history. A lot of people wanted to play AM before me, but the circle only had 4 active fighters in it and no one else was really willing to take the plunge. When we (through force of will, five active fighters, enfeeble/absolve, and 14 hour days) started to finally begin to have some success, other people were more willing to take the risk and join up.
Laia's amnesty alongside some fledgling combat showings got the ball moving, and from there it primarily just felt like momentum. You may recall that Azefel was Khandavan before switching over, and he didn't leave due to classleads - I offered him a chance for something fun and (at the time) good fights.
But you're right, we both have reasons to believe what we do and we're both likely biased. I simply refuse to cede control entirely over to the divine for my successes and failures. When I lose a team fight, I'll imagine that it's something I should done differently long before subscribing the failure to class balance or the tides.
It's good that you mention revisionist history and also provide an example in the next paragraph. It's a good skill to have. Kudos.
I'm perfectly fine calling a spade a spade. The difference here is rather than focus on a single event and use that to prove a point, I use the big picture. (My chronological order may not agree with my numbers)
1. Garryn-bot The largest detractor for Anti-Magick was the lack of a reliable and fast curing. This is pretty much an accepted truth by anyone who played this game from 2006-20013
2. Ciguatoxin/Metrazol
3. Shards
No risk pk? It's not leadership. It's the guarantee that you won't be visited by an artifact bot who has a better system than you while you're laying pipe in townes. Historically speaking, it was never the skirmishes that dissuaded people from combat.
4. Team Combat Balance Everyone can agree that team combat generally has a priority that is usually dps > cc > afflictions. AM has the best mix of this. All of am's skillsets allow you to show up and dps/affliction hybrid. This isn't the case in Magick and Demonic. It also helps that nearly all AM classes have awesome and reliable CC's that stack with each other. It also helps that AM has an increased concentration of damage modifier skills outside of strychnine.
5. Classleads and hot fixes: -Ranged combat
-Totems
6. Players themselves Chicken or the egg here. Did AM start pking more because they had a good thing going? Or did a few players in AM start pking and show people the promised land. There's no argument that AM has the highest concentration of people willing to go out and fight. But, you can't begin to say why (See: Chicken and the Egg)
I think we can all remember when AM cried about the unfairness of it all and didn't show up (At all. Ever) to the initial ranged stand offs that were shard fights upon release. Who can blame them, cataclysm > doppleganger > monks. As far as totems go, AM has always been the zergiest of the zerg. Sure there are times when Isadarr panda-trained people, but historically, AM been the volunteer fire department when it comes to pk. When totems got whacked they could finally zerg blindly into a room, pick a target from ring and drag their face across the keyboard to victory.
There's a long list of people who did shards as other circles and got wrecked by AM and migrated to an AM-Alt or just jumped over on their primary and cited their reason for changing as something else. There hasn't been much migration from AM to anything else. That's pretty indicative of a trend to everyone else.
Though, to be fair, Antioch has probably had the largest population since the game opened. No special circumstances there.
You go through the motions, having a hideously warped treant take small objects from your hand and carry them to a distant spot marked with a little mound of treats.
4. Team Combat Balance Everyone can agree that team combat generally has a priority that is usually dps > cc > afflictions.
Obviously, the formula for team combat in Imperian is given by:
( average combat artifact cost / participant ) + ∑ each player ( 1.6 * no. of useful affliction skills + 1.4 * cc skills / eqbal cost + 1.2 * dps skills ) / average hp of group * ( captaincy (or leadership) factor * combat awareness / average ping * dps / maxhp ) ^ ( ∑ weighted informative combat appropriate ringtells with diminishing returns ) multiplied by the interaction term of skill synergy;
where the winner is predicted by the odds ratio of any given side's score to the opposing side's score. I dub this the Imperian Battle Index. Soon to be validated.
Edit: I revoke this Index. I forgot to include the Obelisk of Aryana. :P
Summoner release WILL give us, just as we saw with druid and hunter, an influx. As to how many of those stay around, my guess is not many for very long, because that's what happened with druid/hunter, and not only that, but those changes, 80% of the way, buffed magick. AM got the most minute upgrade comparatively, and yet their number advantage is leading me to believe THEIR circle got two new professions. Not only that, but this upgrade is split 50/50 between magick and demonic. Don't expect our influx of members, or should I say, Stavenn's future influx of members, to be lasting long after the thrills wear off and people get the messages so they don't die to the newest edition of bloodfreeze/reclaim/Marduk/otherskillnoonehadmessagesfor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- @Septus (Male Ssylsin). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- <stuff> He is a Denizen in Kinsarmar. --
Mathiaus said:
Honestly, few Magick fighters constantly work together to research amd practice group combat situations and protection drills.
I'd like to point out, there was a time where I tried to make group combat worked. I helped people out with coding, I ran people through drills. I gave people situations and asked how they would deal with them. I even made combat triggers that automatically retargetted according to ringtells, hit with appropriate toxins, and basically did everything for the person to make them more effective in group combat than they otherwise would be.
Apparently, pressing "F5" is too much for some people. I gave up around then.
P.S. @Kalon Join cults/sects to get RP going. I haven't logged in for a while to get my sect going because of school, but sects are a great way to get RP going. Remember that if you want RP, you can't just wait for the admins or other players to start RP, start it yourself! Everyone waits for things to happen rather than remembering, as players, we can cause RP to happen, even on a global scale if that's what we really want.
Honestly, few Magick fighters constantly work together to research amd practice group combat situations and protection drills.
One thing that demonic -does- have going for it, since often we lack numbers and/or firepower, is that many of us were at one time or another noob-griefing, pk-loving mouth breathers, and there is probably a higher level of collective combat awareness in the group heading to a Shardfall, Obelisk battle, etc. If the "leader" dies, things aren't necessarily going to fall to pieces.
“We abjure labels. We fight for money and an indefinable pride. The politics, the ethics, the moralities, are irrelevant."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- @Septus (Male Ssylsin). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- <stuff> He is a Denizen in Kinsarmar. -- So it begins. PS. We love you
I will assume that Xeron comes in the package deal, much like how a circle is forced to take Sarrius if Lalitana moves?
“We abjure labels. We fight for money and an indefinable pride. The politics, the ethics, the moralities, are irrelevant."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- @Septus (Male Ssylsin). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- <stuff> He is a Denizen in Kinsarmar. -- So it begins. PS. We love you
I will assume that Xeron comes in the package deal, much like how a circle is forced to take Sarrius if Lalitana moves?
A glorious stand comes to a rather sheepishly inglorious end...
Silmeria begins to bear down on you with a curved sabre. Your bandages staunch all of your bleeding. H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b> (Ring): You say, "CLEAVE ATTEMPT BY Silmeria!" H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b> You feel an aura of rebounding surround you. You have gained the anti-weapon field defence. H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b> Mind paralyse curved sabre. added to your EQBAL queue. H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b> ..... Screaming out a warcry of pure strength, Silmeria brings her sabre crashing straight down on your head. Blackness fills your vision and the screams of pain exploding in your head find no outlet as your entire body is clove asunder.
“We abjure labels. We fight for money and an indefinable pride. The politics, the ethics, the moralities, are irrelevant."
@Gurn - I remember when you were helping everyone out with that stuff and they seemed to be getting it at the time, though I'm guessing it never really stuck for half of it. Maybe we should start cleave/behead drills and see who stops us :P
@Eldreth - I find this true till lately when Ziat, myself, and a handful of others have been watching each other well enough to start target calling better once the leader dies. Still, combat awareness, to me, comes from correctly highlighting/echoing/resizing/beeping things to let you know what's going on, and I'm not sure who here has tons of code simply made to compensate toward defense like that.
@Mathiaus - If you saw my client window during a shardfall, it is virtually unrecognizable. I use clever little ansi designs and boxes in my echoes, I sub and gag like a madman, and my color patterns would trigger a fit of epilepsy in Helen Keller. Half my fights look like
@Gurn - I remember when you were helping everyone out with that stuff and they seemed to be getting it at the time, though I'm guessing it never really stuck for half of it. Maybe we should start cleave/behead drills and see who stops us :P
Seemed being the operative word here. They forgot the moment we entered combat, or the next day rolled around, whichever came first.
Comments
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
Interestingly enough, for once I actually feel like magick is getting at least our share in terms of mechanical development, if not
a bit of favor. In balance we still have a ways to go simply because of how bad things were before, but I have high hopes for the future.
The place I really feel starved, though, is in RP. For a long time, but especially since the Khandava swap, I've felt like not only are we not getting positive attention in events, but we no longer even have plot hooks from which events could spawn. The major driving element of Imperians metaplot for some time has been oh noez demons, and the people who crusade against those demons. Guess I'd just like to see magic take the initiative for once, though I don't know how much of that is just a lack of orgrequests coming in.
At the end of the day, we're probably going to have to agree to disagree. Let's call it bias.
I feel like the combat imbalance is often times exaggerated, but when it comes to Magick and Demonic complaining about the lack of a meaningful or even cohesive narrative, they're both usually spot on.
Honestly, few Magick fighters constantly work together to research amd practice group combat situations and protection drills.
The largest detractor for Anti-Magick was the lack of a reliable and fast curing. This is pretty much an accepted truth by anyone who played this game from 2006-20013
2. Ciguatoxin/Metrazol
Everyone can agree that team combat generally has a priority that is usually dps > cc > afflictions. AM has the best mix of this. All of am's skillsets allow you to show up and dps/affliction hybrid. This isn't the case in Magick and Demonic. It also helps that nearly all AM classes have awesome and reliable CC's that stack with each other. It also helps that AM has an increased concentration of damage modifier skills outside of strychnine.
-Ranged combat
Chicken or the egg here. Did AM start pking more because they had a good thing going? Or did a few players in AM start pking and show people the promised land. There's no argument that AM has the highest concentration of people willing to go out and fight. But, you can't begin to say why (See: Chicken and the Egg)
There's a long list of people who did shards as other circles and got wrecked by AM and migrated to an AM-Alt or just jumped over on their primary and cited their reason for changing as something else. There hasn't been much migration from AM to anything else. That's pretty indicative of a trend to everyone else.
Though, to be fair, Antioch has probably had the largest population since the game opened. No special circumstances there.
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
@Septus (Male Ssylsin).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
<stuff>
He is a Denizen in Kinsarmar.
--
So it begins.
PS. We love you
I'd like to point out, there was a time where I tried to make group combat worked. I helped people out with coding, I ran people through drills. I gave people situations and asked how they would deal with them. I even made combat triggers that automatically retargetted according to ringtells, hit with appropriate toxins, and basically did everything for the person to make them more effective in group combat than they otherwise would be.
Apparently, pressing "F5" is too much for some people. I gave up around then.
P.S. @Kalon Join cults/sects to get RP going. I haven't logged in for a while to get my sect going because of school, but sects are a great way to get RP going. Remember that if you want RP, you can't just wait for the admins or other players to start RP, start it yourself! Everyone waits for things to happen rather than remembering, as players, we can cause RP to happen, even on a global scale if that's what we really want.
Silmeria begins to bear down on you with a curved sabre.
Your bandages staunch all of your bleeding.
H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b>
(Ring): You say, "CLEAVE ATTEMPT BY Silmeria!"
H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b>
You feel an aura of rebounding surround you.
You have gained the anti-weapon field defence.
H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b>
Mind paralyse curved sabre. added to your EQBAL queue.
H:546 M:735 S:79 <-b>
.....
Screaming out a warcry of pure strength, Silmeria brings her sabre crashing straight down on your
head. Blackness fills your vision and the screams of pain exploding in your head find no outlet as
your entire body is clove asunder.
:-?
(Newb): Kira says, "Ozreas is busy making a post about the Chinese Imperial
Army."
(Newb): Kira says, "ImeanRavenguard."
(Newb): You say, "TO BE A MAAAAAAAAAN."
(Newb): You say, "You must have 25 maidenhair."
(Newb): You say, "TO BE A MAAAAAAAAAAAN."
(Newb): You say, "You must carry mending."
(Newb): You say, "Oz, are you taking notes?"
(Newb): You say, "I'm writing this for you."
(Newb): Ozreas says, "TO BE A MAAAAN."
(Newb): Kira says, "I told him I want emotes."
(Newb): Ozreas says, "You must have a full set of limb armour."
(Newb): You say, "Hahaha."
Ithaquan RP works because we're all huge Disney nerds.
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”