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Improving Imperian

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  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm totally okay with ganking people while they're fighting bosses. That's the entire point of a world boss. I can't be the only person here who tried to wipe people going after Doomwalker and Kazzak.

    I just wish that there was more of a reward for the people who don't get the KB.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • DiceneDicene Member Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    You misunderstand my reasoning. I don't care one way or another about people ganking one of the people fighting the boss, what I hate is people busing in at the last minute and stealing the kill. How many deaths did myself, Shou, Risca, and Ageranu eat for Victor to ride in and steal the kill on Rinrr the first time? I'd say 15+ between us.
    image
  • CaelyaCaelya Member Posts: 383 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    I idea'd this already, but I figured I'd post here too. 

    A new command for guilds, cities, councils, clans, and cults/sects. <org type> LASTLOGIN LIST 0 [1-6]. This would give a list of every person that has logged on on a particular day. For example, GUILD LASTLOGIN LIST by itself for the Idras would show: Kira, Dular, Alesud, Caelya (etc). It could also include the latest time that a person logged in on a particular day, but that would probably get messy. I mostly just want a nice, tidy list that you can refer to without having to LASTLOGIN a particular person and be given vague details, never mind not being able to do it to higher-ranking individuals. I don't find it invasive, but rather objectively informative.

  • KalonKalon Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    Garryn said:
    Dicene said:
    @Jeremy I'd imagine it's a ridiculously daunting task on your side. Even baby steps like Lettings mobs get hindered, adding limbs breaks that temporarily stop enemy attacking, etc would be huge undertakings.
    That all is still the easier part, the difficult (or well, time consuming) part is that every single attack would need to be rewritten to support mob attacks (attacks vs players are handled very differently than attacks vs mobs). Which is all doable, the big question is, would it be worth it, and worth prioritising over other projects? Getting this done against one type of mobs (test dummies or anything) wouldn't be any faster than getting it done against all of them.

    Any way of going about it backwards: rather than recoding all the abilities in the game, would it be less work to re-write the mob code to be player objects with some overrides thrown in to make them behave as one would expect? I have no clue what your code actually looks like, but an implementation from that end might at least allow you to phase them in piecewise and with only one set of changes rather than needing to code every skill twice.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ugh, please no.

    You will never balance pve-combat with the current skills. It's better to not try. But if you're going to commit to this, do it in an innovative and time saving way. Just go into each skillset and add 6 new skills for pve combat. They don't have to be the same skills, but they need to fit the kit. This has the advantages of:
    -Yay! New sparklies.
    -Having the new pve-combat code without rewriting the game for 0 reward.
    -Not delving into the spaghetti code.
    -Easier to balance.
  • EustoEusto Member, Moderator Posts: 123 mod
     would it be less work to re-write the mob code to be player objects with some overrides thrown in to make them behave as one would expect?
    Quite the opposite, unfortunately. Garryn was suggesting the "easy" way.
  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013
    Working off of http://www.ironrealms.com/rapture/manual/ -- Mobs are reps of templates, and sit in the replica[] table. Players sit in the persona[] table. I assume that most things (afflictions, etc) are elements of each persona object.

    You can't straight transfer replicas over onto the persona table (because, among other things, personas are tied to entries in the node[] list, and replicas have to have mothers), but you might be able to add attributes to the rep table and make it work.

    Then you'd have to do a check on everything to see if the verb is targeting a rep or a persona, and start implementing curing for each rep, which puts more weight on whatever handles curing events.

    EDIT: God I hope I'm not entirely wrong. I have a horrible fear Eusto or Garryn are going to come in and school me and tell me to stop trying to read Rapture docs :(

    EDIT 2: Apparently two people posted while I was double checking the docs. I AM A BAD.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Khizan said:

    I don't want to see that kind of thing go into PvE because I don't think it would add anything of value to the game. PvP is often enough a game of CC now; I don't think it would make the game better for bashing to become a similiar affair.

    It would be especially irritating when you look at sabreknights, Wardens, and wardancers, who have bashing attacks that also carry afflictions. Unless Renegades could annihilate mobs, or such things, but then that would completely remove the idea of mobs having various levels of health, so they'd have to heal better, and it's just a big barrel of problems that we don't need to open up.

    Imagine bard pve. La, la, la. Kantae-Dead. La. La. La. Kantae-Dead.
    Bard says, "Shut up. This is hard!"
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    Khizan said:

    I'm totally okay with ganking people while they're fighting bosses. That's the entire point of a world boss. I can't be the only person here who tried to wipe people going after Doomwalker and Kazzak.

    I just wish that there was more of a reward for the people who don't get the KB.

    Based off of what killer currently gets, I'd say it'd be fair for each participating individual to net a giftbag soulstone.
  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Turning in the bodies is 5k gold. They're all doable with 5 or fewer. Everyone gets 1k! Woo!
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • RovenRoven Member Posts: 29
    @Khizan And if some sort of simplifying mob effects were used to reduce how debilitating affliction-stacking and CC-stacking was to mobs?
    Avatar image by Luxuris (NSFW)
  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    if I can sensitive quarter world boss for 80% his hp I'd jump all over that ****
  • DiceneDicene Member Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2013

    As far as the combat dummy goes: It's unfortunate how much work it would take to make something work internally like I could make it work with 10 triggers in a MUD client. @Jeremy You provide a perma-starbursted, always logged in character that doesn't show up on WHO and isn't worth experience or achievements when you kill it, and I'll write out the 10 triggers it would take for this character to be a fully functioning combat dummy. You keep him and his 5 friends (one for each city/council) logged in all the time, and I'll not spam CT and CLT every day for people to accidentally brainmelt or beg for a training dummy feature ever again. Everyone wins. =P


    PS: That Rapture manual is sexy. I love seeing how things work under the hood.

    image
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Roven said:
    @Khizan And if some sort of simplifying mob effects were used to reduce how debilitating affliction-stacking and CC-stacking was to mobs?

    What's the point in making mobs afflictable if you're going to immediately turn around and make it meaningless?

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • RovenRoven Member Posts: 29
    @Khizan Why is having some effect, as opposed to none, meaningless?
    Avatar image by Luxuris (NSFW)
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most classes do not have significant affliction potential on their bashing attack. Some of them are even affliction-based classes like Renegades/Diabolist/Wytchen who still bash with straight up bashing attacks. 

    This means that, for most classes, any sort of afflicting and such will be INSTEAD of attacking them, and not IN ADDITION TO. 

    So, for most classes, it'll be garbage unless afffliction kills are viable. And if you're reducing the affliction effects, affliction kills won't be viable.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    Can weaponlist and armourlist be removed and their functionality added to weaponprobe? You can easily write a simple script to use weaponprobe to provide a similar if not identical output. These 2 skills don't add anything of value and just make it annoying for people who didn't learn weaponry to fabled (e.g. newbies) to sort out equipment.

    Though come to think of it, weaponlist and armourlist do allow you to look (and consequently purchase) specific items from shops even when they are displayed as a stack –  though I certainly hope this isn't supposed to justify it.
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Azefel said:
    Can weaponlist and armourlist be removed and their functionality added to weaponprobe? You can easily write a simple script to use weaponprobe to provide a similar if not identical output. These 2 skills don't add anything of value and just make it annoying for people who didn't learn weaponry to fabled (e.g. newbies) to sort out equipment.

    Though come to think of it, weaponlist and armourlist do allow you to look (and consequently purchase) specific items from shops even when they are displayed as a stack –  though I certainly hope this isn't supposed to justify it.
    Alternatively, can we just move armourlist and weaponlist to inept as a quality of life change?
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    Khizan said:

    I just wish that there was more of a reward for the people who don't get the KB.

    Following in this, is there a point on PK xp not being shared, since we are encouraging team combat? What would be the harm on allowing it?

    I don't mind telling you, it is annoying to have your team get 5 kills and then you dying. It isn't even 'taking a bullet for the team' :(
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Svorai said:
    Tireth no longer walks the underworld. We fed him to Garryn - he was getting kind of hungry anyways.
    You're sort of okay I guess.  For a filthy magicker entity.

    (Yay!! thanks)
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    Since now horses are practically required for the waterwalking, could we pretty please make that a shyness' successful proc no longer causes you to lose entourage?

    Or least that, MAGICALLY, you no longer stop RIDING your horse to RUN in a random direction?

    Thank you :(
  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    inb4 use waterwalking ritual (does anyone actually take anything in mobility?)
  • OlanreOlanre Member Posts: 10 ✭✭✭
    Svorai said:
    Tireth no longer walks the underworld. We fed him to Garryn - he was getting kind of hungry anyways.
    I was hungry too, damn it. 
  • SvoraiSvorai Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 293 mod
    Olanre said:
    Svorai said:
    Tireth no longer walks the underworld. We fed him to Garryn - he was getting kind of hungry anyways.
    I was hungry too, damn it. 
    I am sure there is another mob (or player) that we can sacrifice to the tree. :)
  • ZarimZarim Member Posts: 85 ✭✭✭
    How about all those wannabe bosses in the desert temple? No special strategies, no special rewards, no crits, no fun.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,251 admin
    Zarim said:
    How about all those wannabe bosses in the desert temple? No special strategies, no special rewards, no crits, no fun.
    I plan on doing something about them soon.
  • MathiausMathiaus Member Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭✭
    I think I said it before, but I would still like to see change aspect power to reincarnate purgable before the 12 hours completely goes through.
    image
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