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  • WysriasWysrias Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭
    It's par for the course and also happens to be ridiculous. Half of demonic's (and magick's) professions charge this ability, including plenty that do no damage of their own (curses, evileye). What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving (and accumulates behind prismatic for that matter)?


  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    @Wysrias: They have to be targeted at Karyn as Ultrix stated, so if she's sitting behind prismatic, she's not accumulating. I can test this on my Pred alt when I get home. Also, while I have a disdain for whataboutism, it's "par for the course" because there are a lot of classes doing effortless damage right now in groups with far less conditional requirements than tidalslash. This doesn't excuse Tidalslash, but I'd maintain that it's probably not the biggest offender.
  • WysriasWysrias Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭
    Rahiel said:

    @Wysrias: They have to be targeted at Karyn as Ultrix stated, so if she's sitting behind prismatic, she's not accumulating. I can test this on my Pred alt when I get home. Also, while I have a disdain for whataboutism, it's "par for the course" because there are a lot of classes doing effortless damage right now in groups with far less conditional requirements than tidalslash. This doesn't excuse Tidalslash, but I'd maintain that it's probably not the biggest offender.

    Curses and evileye go through prismatic. She was definitely charging behind it.


  • OzreasOzreas Member, Beta Testers Posts: 235 ✭✭✭✭
    You can charge it using flare, cleansing, any of the int-scaling kanai attacks, any of the new int-scaling weapon enhancements (even a deathknight or runeguard might be charging tidalslash, now), basically anything else that scales with intelligence. A deathknight or templar could easily charge tidalslash four times in one attack.
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited March 2015
    I'm fairly sure tidalslash only charges when you receive damage of a magickal nature. Curses (without Mark) and Evileye by itself doesn't charge it unless they're doing damage. If Demonic continued to focus Karyn while she's behind prismatic, that sounds like a tactical error rather than the ability being too powerful. Granted, I wouldn't have any problem with tidalslash charging being reduced/removed while behind prismatic, but I think that's a fairly small counter to actually being able to attack through prismatic (which is pretty nice to begin with).

    Edit: As Ozreas stated then, it can be pre-charged by AM, but given all the fights I've been at with Karyn, she doesn't do it.
  • UltrixUltrix Member Posts: 288 ✭✭✭
    Wysrias said:

    Rahiel said:

    @Wysrias: They have to be targeted at Karyn as Ultrix stated, so if she's sitting behind prismatic, she's not accumulating. I can test this on my Pred alt when I get home. Also, while I have a disdain for whataboutism, it's "par for the course" because there are a lot of classes doing effortless damage right now in groups with far less conditional requirements than tidalslash. This doesn't excuse Tidalslash, but I'd maintain that it's probably not the biggest offender.

    Curses and evileye go through prismatic. She was definitely charging behind it.
    Putting aside the various other comments about what other skills can possibly charge tidalslash, I am not sure I see what the issue is with charging off a skill that goes through prismatic. If it goes through prismatic, the predator is taking the consequence/effect of the attack. Why shouldn't charge accumulate?
  • WysriasWysrias Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not arguing charge shouldn't accumulating, just clarifying that it does. I think the entire mechanic is bizzare in the current game, as it provides a pretty circle/profession specific counter that charges fast enough to be used multiple times in one fight.


  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Rahiel said:

    ..that sounds like a tactical error..

    Man, I wish I could show you the choices we had.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    Wysrias said:

    ... What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving ...?

    Something, something, AURASHIFT.
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eh, let's not split straws. Tidalslash is pretty op. Just because Karyn is too nice to not precharge it doesn't make it ok (I would precharge that every fight shamelessly). They could've hit someone else for sure, but that's not really a fair option. What if we all rolled predator? Etc.
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Let's be honest, knights are basically tidalslashing every L3 reave/reave combo these days. :(
  • WysriasWysrias Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭
    Cassius said:

    Wysrias said:

    ... What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving ...?

    Something, something, AURASHIFT.
    I will assume that's at least partially sarcasm since tidalslash doesn't require you to be sub-10% maxhealth when you use it to deal comparable damage, and aurashift doesn't do unblockable damage!


  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    Wysrias said:

    Cassius said:

    Wysrias said:

    ... What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving ...?

    Something, something, AURASHIFT.
    I will assume that's at least partially sarcasm since tidalslash doesn't require you to be sub-10% maxhealth when you use it to deal comparable damage, and aurashift doesn't do unblockable damage!
    Sarcasm, yes....but more, any skill that charges/gains momentum by a mechanic that is not actively initiated by the person is generally awful.
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Septus said:

    Eh, let's not split straws. Tidalslash is pretty op. Just because Karyn is too nice to not precharge it doesn't make it ok (I would precharge that every fight shamelessly). They could've hit someone else for sure, but that's not really a fair option. What if we all rolled predator? Etc.

    A reasonable solution is diminished returns on Tidalslash charge based on how many folks are actively targeting the Pred if Tidalslash is deemed an issue.

    @Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.

    Granted, if Tidalslash IS an issue, we probably should take a look at a lot of the high damage sources in the game. Cassius really isn't kidding where getting hit by a reaving knight right now will absolutely melt most people right now.

    @Iniar: Demonic doesn't have a lack of options. I've played on a side elsewhere that had to face raw damage classes with our assortment of affliction-based offenses and we fared well more often than not. I will state that affliction-based classes in team fights require a lot of coordination in order to make the most out of them, so they're a bit harder than limb-based offenses. However, to insinuate that demonic has a lack of options in groups (especially with some of the stuff they have) does their kits a large disservice.
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Rahiel I wasn't insinuating that demonic has a lack of options in groups.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Iniar said:

    @Rahiel I wasn't insinuating that demonic has a lack of options in groups.

    Well, alright. It just came off that way when you said that you wish you could show me the options that you had.
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Rahiel said:

    @Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.

    Non-game breaking doesn't mean that it's a great mechanic.  Kai you can also precharge (can/has/will be done) and also breeds skills like deliverance.  

    Druid used to be this way too, where you could charge up/maintain the momentum before the fight started.  It was rightfully changed some time ago to prevent precharging and also saw more changes this classlead round so that the momentum mechanic didn't feed itself in a way that was 100% maintainable.
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The damage meta worries me; I'm getting 3-4 shotted in the second tankiest class in my circle. It worries me, padre, it worries me.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RascaRasca Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    Cassius said:

    Rahiel said:

    @Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.

    Non-game breaking doesn't mean that it's a great mechanic.  Kai you can also precharge (can/has/will be done) and also breeds skills like deliverance.  

    Druid used to be this way too, where you could charge up/maintain the momentum before the fight started.  It was rightfully changed some time ago to prevent precharging and also saw more changes this classlead round so that the momentum mechanic didn't feed itself in a way that was 100% maintainable.
    The deliverance change whereby any action during deliverance setup cancels deliverance is awesome and a good fix for this pre-charging mechanic. Used to be I could charge up, start deliverance, yell an insult, jumpkick into a room full of 10 defenders/raiders and time it so that deliverance went up a split-second later. I think it's a Good Thing that this is no longer possible.
    無駄だ!無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄!ザ・ワールド!時よ止まれ!くらえ!そして、時は動き出す。
    image
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    Rasca said:

    Cassius said:

    Rahiel said:

    @Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.

    Non-game breaking doesn't mean that it's a great mechanic.  Kai you can also precharge (can/has/will be done) and also breeds skills like deliverance.  

    Druid used to be this way too, where you could charge up/maintain the momentum before the fight started.  It was rightfully changed some time ago to prevent precharging and also saw more changes this classlead round so that the momentum mechanic didn't feed itself in a way that was 100% maintainable.
    The deliverance change whereby any action during deliverance setup cancels deliverance is awesome and a good fix for this pre-charging mechanic. Used to be I could charge up, start deliverance, yell an insult, jumpkick into a room full of 10 defenders/raiders and time it so that deliverance went up a split-second later. I think it's a Good Thing that this is no longer possible.
    That in no way prevents pre-charging.  It only makes it a little less trolly.
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, reallistically it means if you hit deliverance, it is entirely your falt.
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    Septus said:

    Well, reallistically it means if you hit deliverance, it is entirely your falt.

    I agree which is why I said it wasn't exactly game-breaking.  But that doesn't put it in the column of 'good' or 'interesting' mechanics either.

    And pre-charging kai can be used for more than just deliverance.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If legitimately hit Deliverance more than maybe once a year you should stop being so awful at this game.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • RascaRasca Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    Right, it doesn't prevent pre-charging, but deliverance is the only thing that realistically requires pre-charging that could be a legit threat.
    無駄だ!無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄!ザ・ワールド!時よ止まれ!くらえ!そして、時は動き出す。
    image
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Being able to frontload damage where the class isn't designed for it doesn't seem worthless.  Or you know, kaibanish a heavy hitter out of a teamfight from the start.

    None of the skills themselves are really a problem, it's the fact that if it can be precharged, someone will.  You appear to have already admitted to such shenanigans already.
  • RascaRasca Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Sure, the ability to stack enfeeble with an opening attack shouldn't be discounted, but in its current state it's way better than old school enfeeble/absolve. Banish is super great as well, as you mentioned. Monk is such a swiss army knife class, I really love it. What were we talking about again?

    image
    無駄だ!無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄無駄!ザ・ワールド!時よ止まれ!くらえ!そして、時は動き出す。
    image
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    05:06:33.363 (Ring): Kliko says, "Khizan USING METEOR!"
    05:06:33.366
    512[131] 590[125] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:33.670
    (Ring): Kliko says, "Khizan USING METEOR!"
    05:06:33.673
    512[131] 590[125] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:33.680
    (Ring): Iluv says, "Khizan CHANNED METEOR! METEOR INCOMING!"
    05:06:33.682 (Ring):
    Iluv says, "Khizan CHANNELD METEOR! METEOR INCOMING."
    05:06:33.684
    512[131] 590[125] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:38.440 You aren't wielding that.
    05:06:38.442 You are now holding a soulspear in your left hand.
    05:06:38.445 Your grip is already relaxed.
    05:06:38.447 You don't see your target in that direction.
    05:06:38.449 You cock back your arm and hurl a glowing spear with all your might at
    Khizan, to the southeast.
    05:06:38.451 Balance Taken: 5.60s
    05:06:38.457
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:38.995
    As prophesied by Wysrias, Khizan has met his doom.
    05:06:38.997
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.003
    (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Khizan."
    05:06:39.010
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.014
    (Ring): Nethra says, "Khizan using starburst."
    05:06:39.015 (Ring):
    Nethra says, "Khizan using starburst."
    05:06:39.017
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.020
    (Ring): Wysrias says, "KHIZAN hit starburst!"
    05:06:39.021 (Ring):
    Wysrias says, "KHIZAN hit starburst!"
    05:06:39.022
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.026
    (Ring): Kliko says, ": Khizan has been killed!"
    05:06:39.027
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.302
    (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Khizan."
    05:06:39.304
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.311
    (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Khizan has been killed!"
    05:06:39.313
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.317
    (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Khizan STARBURSTED!"
    05:06:39.621
    512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
    05:06:39.916
    Khizan lets loose a roar of triumph as he becomes a Champion of mortalkind.
    05:06:39.919
    Khizan has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
    05:06:39.920
    Tyranoth has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
    05:06:39.922
    Nethra has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
    05:06:39.924
    Kliko has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
    05:06:39.926 The decaying hands retreat back into the comfort of the earth.

    What stops meteor channel?
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The normal stuff. There is a delay between the channel finishing and the Meteor actually landing. By the time you guys stopped me the Meteor was already falling and nothing could stop it.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The normal stuff. There is a delay between the channel finishing and the Meteor actually landing. By the time you guys stopped me the Meteor was already falling and nothing could stop it.
    Thanks, do you have the lines for the stages? All I have is: 
    ^(\w+) slowly raises (?:his|her) arms and a blazing red sphere appears high above you, descending swiftly towards your location\.$
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    I've only got the first person messages. :D

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

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