Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Classlead Hashout Late 2013

13468911

Comments

  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin
    Ahkan said:
    This has been classleaded before and bugged. Here's hoping the 3rd time is the charm!
    Hmm, I don't see any bug reports from you or anyone else regarding demon blast. Either way, it's fixed now.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe I misspoke. It's been 'reported' to the powers that be before. Demon blast has knocked people in/out of a room upon use as long as I can remember. Could have sworn we (Lionas and I) used the bug command though. Thanks though!
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If anybody in Antioch is stealing from novices, I will uncitizen them. You may hold me accountable via quoting if I argue.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh no! Quoting! Not that!

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Garryn said:
    Ahkan said:
    This has been classleaded before and bugged. Here's hoping the 3rd time is the charm!
    Hmm, I don't see any bug reports from you or anyone else regarding demon blast. Either way, it's fixed now.
    It might have been erroneously deleted at some point, but I've bugged it. I can pull out the log on the laptop harddrive from two laptops ago, if it's a point of contention.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    Templar mirroring and emblazon:

    Septus slashed you with a sabre.
    H -41cp [8.54%] [69]  <--sabre damage
    As the weapon strikes you, the runes on your body burn you painfully.
    H -52fm [10.83%] [62] <-Emblazen damage
    As the weapon strikes you, the curse of Justice descends upon you. ,<-Mirroring (this is mirroring flare #4
    A cold sweat overtakes you, your skin suddenly turning pale and clammy. 
    You are afflicted with calotropis.

    **Important variables: I am prone here with strychnine. Damage on emblazen is still higher than soulquench.


    This is a 140 damage dsl (with a sabre) with 3 afflictions (something you see with sensitive claymore dsls), with sabres. Come on guys. Old Imperian of 2006 was smart enough to not give weapon procs this much damage output. We balance around runes. You can't justify basing a damage skills on a number of runes active. Let me reference arguments from 2006-2010 why soulquench was so ;_;. Now, emblazon is on all the time (unlike old soulquench) and does more damage than soulquench. 

    Why evasion should be 100%, 24/7:

    Septus slashed you with a sabre.
    H -30cp [6.25%] [69]
    Terror takes hold, as a numb sensation overcomes your body. <-Evasion is groinkicked here. My 300cr purchase just got dinged by 50% (you can't avoid this)
    You are afflicted with paralysis.
    Septus slashed you with a sabre.
    H -34cp [7.08%] [69] <-- 13% damage increase. That's a collar of pyralis right there.
    Your vision and hearing are suddenly restored.


    Even outside of fighting the spam cc wagon (AM, for those newbies) combat is focused on stacking hinders. If we're going to balance combat around evasion, evasion needs to be in play all the time. Not turned off at the slightest hint of beginning an offense.

    Unconsciousness:
    Lionas suddenly regains consciousness.
    Lionas suddenly regains consciousness.
    Lionas suddenly regains consciousness.

    For him to recover from this, he had to be unconned. The perpetrator here was warden, which overlaps. If you get proned. Your parry is shot. Aka, they can re-buttstrike you before you stand. I;m going to tangent here for a second and argue for parity. Garryn removed the ability to worm snipe broads to remove ranged unconscious. However, he left long shot, strafe, snipe in for AM. AM also has pommelwhip, buttstrike. Magick and Demonic have line of sight broads. Food for thought. At the end of the day, unconscious needs to die, 100%.

    Associated gripes: Wolf charge. Wyrm ambush--> impale. (You can put joust here too, but all 3 circles have access to it. /effort)

    Pin down had its shot. It's just not comboable. (We said this  1000x.)
    Associated gripe: This game has too much cc.

    Karyn whips her arm downwards and looses a long dart, piercing clean through Lionas's body and nailing him to the ground. <-- all day, erry day
    Karyn's knife leaves a curving trail of light as it tears into Lionas, cutting him from hip to shoulder.
    Lionas grimaces, gripping at his throat.
    Karyn is in Gyanis.
    Karyn's knife leaves a curving trail of light as it tears into Lionas, cutting him from hip to shoulder.
    Karyn is in Ein-Fasit.

    Well. This is something that's really unique to AM. They can sustain crowd control entangles, dps, and dish out afflictions (all while stacking limb damage). No one else has this sort of on demand versatility. Someone is going to say summoner hangedman, someone else will say impale, someone else will say transfix, someone else will say shadowstrike. Let me address those quickly.
    Hangedman: Cannot infuse hangedman. Only damage is from unleashes, which are unlikely considering you set this up with eerion.
    Impale: Low damage. 1 writhe. possible stun. Nothing else.
    Transfix: depends on how it's dished out. Best is wytchen wunjo flare. Almost comparable. Most set up required.
    Shadowstrike: A two round right. Low damage. Can't hunt. Two afflictions. 

    Parry while prone:

    Borrowing from Khizan here. There are so many ways to remove/bypass parry in this game that parry needs to be 100% while prone. Why? Looking at limb targetting and buttstrike here. Good combatants use parry to negate bad targetting. Good combatants switch targets or feint. Bad targets keep hitting into parry hoping someone prones. This is bad. Most limb damage classes have feint or some equivalent and wardens/ansheri have ways to punish people for not using parry effectively. I have no pity for wardens. They do so much limb damage so fast, they can hit another limb and be just as effective. 

  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hrm, just to clarify, was that first dsl of mine with sensitivity? Not arguing for or against emblazon, but that seems unusually high.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    @septus I put it in about the time you commented.

    Additional classlead barghlearghle

    brand vaya with cadmus and buul
    You reach out and hastily scrawl the Mark of Cadmus and the Mark of Buul on Vaya.
    eq:2.75
    brand vaya with cadmus and buul
    A numbing energy runs up your limbs as your attack rebounds off of Vaya's shield.
    eq:1.90

    I understand the motivation here, but it doesn't fit combat in Imperian. These also cause problems in teams. Aka: One wytch can lock out another, requiring a re-mark (haha, a remark, get it?). Bad design. Solution is moving these wytchen side.

    Additional classlead: adding more marks, killing hecate (with fire).
  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭✭
    Hunter thoughts:

    Problem:
    Metrazol and benzene have a 100% chance of stopping a Hunter's attack, forcing him or her to use up equilibrium on the basilisk attack without getting the wyvern attack off. This causes the Hunter base rate of attack to drop to 1 affliction every 2.45 seconds at Athletic.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution #1:
    Give Hunter a 50% chance of getting stopped by these afflictions, like most other affliction professions that use only one hand as their affliction applicator.
    Solution #2:
    A more difficult but better overall solution to fix other issues similar, consolidate Hunter combo attacks to be similar to DSL or Mage, for instance, Wyvern claw <toxin> basilisk <affliction>, in one line, allowing for an option to not fire if you can't use both at once.




    Problem:
    The current method of trigger/brainmelt causes either an overwhelming flood of unstoppable afflictions that punishes the opponent for curing necessary afflictions, or a quickly stopped, forcing the Hunter to reset from square one. This makes combat generally frustrating for both opponents.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution #1:
    Give Hunter's supremacy list a larger list of 'useless' afflictions, such as dizziness, ignorance, shyness, agoraphobia, claustrophobia, vertigo. Remove the ability to trigger from many of the more debilitating afflictions, such as peace, stupidity, and recklessness. Possibly make it so that Hunter can set one more trigger as well, from only the list of the small afflictions. This would fit thematically with the entire brainmelt idea, that is to say, that the opponent has so many afflictions and small mental problems that their mind literally melts from it.
    Solution #2:
    Allow poisonmind into the supremacy skillset, and allow it to be a triggered affliction, while bumping bloodpoison kill number to 5 if it's used this way, allowing a bridge to be able to be created between the two skillsets and kill methods. This would give the Hunter a chance at momentum both ways, giving them the ability to have a fighting chance even if brainmelt momentum is interrupted.
    Solution #3: Both!





    Problem:
    Auras are all pretty useless besides natureaura. Due to attacks not lining up and being on separate eqs, it forces anyone without a diadem to stick to purely nature aura.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Solution #1: Consolidate Hunter attacks as said above, and make most things I've said above different auras. For instance, want current combat? Use Natureaura. Want a stack of afflictions without any hindering afflictions? Use Mindaura(name pending). Want poisonmind transition combat? Use Toxicaura.
  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    In an effort to control the outbreak of narcolepsy (Am swears they don't use uncon). Four classleads ready for people to submit.

    Yes, I know we don't like to delete skills, but all of these professions  are pretty effective even if you remove the listed abilities.

    -Pommelwhip: Class doesn't need it. Delete. 
    -Buttstrike: Class doesn't need it. Delete.
    -Knockout. Class doesn't need it. Delete.
    -Passing out from extreme hunger. Delete. (the passive damage is good enough.)
    -Shield bash (warding) remove the knockout effect.

    -Broad arrows: Remove the ability to 'uncon', leave in shield breaking and blunt damage.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel like both Pommelwhip and Buttstrike actually have integral class functions - Pommelwhip is there to give a Predator the window to break four limbs before the opponent begins curing, and Buttstrike is there to 'punish' people for not parrying head instead of the limb they are hammering on.

    I'm not actually sure if the classes would miss either of these, but they are points to level. I do agree that the amount of spammable unconsciousness is just unacceptable.
    <div>Message #2062&nbsp; Sent By: (imperian)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>****, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    All of the mentioned abilities are useful in single combat for various situations. Rather then an outright delete, I think it would be better to see the abilities exact effects and or requirements changed. If any, Hunger can go because the Summoner revamp removed the only class that really had a hold on playing such a style.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unconsciousness as an affliction just needs to be removed entirely.  You can basically get globalled in the space of a pwhip or buttstrike.

    Give pommelwhip an effect that makes it impossible for that person to parry the predator for the duration of the unconsciousness if that's an issue.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • AhkanAhkan Member Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    @kryss
    No and no. The things you could come up with are too easily obtainable, like prone, leg broken, etc. Anything past that makes the skill useless, which makes it ripe for deletion before it gets classleaded into something dumb. Next: Belch (malig, dk), nauthiz (runeguard, wytchen) and late game nausea.
    -With the bear and 1/3 messages, feint, spider web, wolf charge, there are a lot of ways to set up breaks without a command deny unconsciousness
    -Wardens punish you for not parrying head with shield bash and hitting you in the head, both without command denial.

    What you two kids are missing is that uncon denies command input, something both of you hated about aeon.
  • MathiausMathiaus Member Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭✭
    Khizan said:

    Give pommelwhip an effect that makes it impossible for that person to parry the predator for the duration of the unconsciousness if that's an issue.


    I'd like sleizak to be turned into this.
    image
  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    if you use it enough (you may already be well on your way) it might just turn into that
  • MathiausMathiaus Member Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013
    Azefel said:
    if you use it enough (you may already be well on your way) it might just turn into that


    I don't.

    ********************************[ Tablet list ]********************************
    ID       Decay  Charges  Runes                                                       
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    23023    41     49       Eihwaz, Hugalaz, Inguz, Nauthiz, Pithakhan, Sowulu 
    17360    41     44       Eihwaz, Hugalaz, Inguz, Nauthiz, Pithakhan, Sowulu 
    *******************************************************************************

     

    image
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For as long as feintslash exists, no knight prof should be given an easier time of bypassing parry.

    Ranger doesn't need to prep four limbs, so doesn't need to punish people by forcing them to parry head (three is more than enough, two is often sufficient).

    I think to be more clear Sarrius' issue with pommelstrike is that it lets the pred break four limbs before the person can start curing, not that it bypasses parry. I've never played predator so I have no idea if that's necessary or not practically speaking (I'm inclined to say no). Personally I'd prefer to have them apply to arms first so they'd delay applying to legs and getting back unprone.

    Shield knockout: if there is a true aversion to deleting it outright, make it give dizziness or something (slow balance or eq would also fit thematically, perhaps). At the end of the day though anything you could make it give could be given equally as well through a toxin, so preserving it is going to just be a matter of flavour (and probably more work than its worth).

  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    I can't think of a single argument where the need for predators requiring 4 limb breaks before limb curing outweighs the abuse and imbalace it provides in team situation.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMO, "It stops them from healing at all for long enough for me to get two attacks in" is a good reason to remove the skill, not a good reason to keep it.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    I'd like to see the causes of failure for tattooing being minimized; either of you leaving the room, falling asleep, being stunned, webbed or impaled being the only things to ruin it.

    It is all cool and fun to explain to a novice that they can't do anything while you're inking them, but it doesn't really add anything to the game.

  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    That's probably something that should be posted in Improving Imperian, not for classleads.
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    Maybe. I'm too lazy to change it.
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2013

    18:57:37.600   Lelani points her quarterstaff at you and an animated hawthorn root leaps at your throat and 
    18:57:37.600   squeezes tightly, attempting to choke the life out of you.
    18:57:37.600      [ EDEN ]  Affliction : choked by a root.
    18:57:37.601   Damage Taken: 65 asphyxiation (raw damage: 88)
    18:57:37.601   446 512 | 552 575 <eb db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 3:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:37.919   Autocuring: writhe root
    18:57:37.919   You struggle to free yourself from the grasp of the animated root.
    18:57:37.920   Balance Taken: 1.00s
    18:57:37.920   446 512 | 552 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 3:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:37.920   Autocuring: smoke pipe with linseed
    18:57:37.921   You take a long drag off your pipe, filling your lungs with linseed smoke.
    18:57:37.921   446 512 | 552 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 3:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:38.493   A sapphire golem slashes you viciously.
    18:57:38.493   Damage Taken: 14 cutting (raw damage: 27)
    18:57:38.493   432 512 | 552 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 3:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:38.813   You have recovered balance.
    18:57:38.814   432 512 | 552 575 <eb db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 3:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazoloo
    18:57:38.898   dsl Lelani opium opium
    18:57:39.213   You rub some opium on a curved sabre.
    18:57:39.214   You slash into Lelani's head with a curved sabre.here12
    18:57:39.214   You rub some opium on a curved sabre.
    18:57:39.214   Lightning-quick, you jab Lelani's left arm with a curved sabre.here12
    18:57:39.214   Lelani parries the attack with a deft maneuver.
    18:57:39.215   Balance Taken: 2.33s
    18:57:39.215   432 512 | 552 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:39.533   Lelani takes a drink from a whimsical firefly vial of blue glass.
    18:57:39.533   432 512 | 552 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:39.534   Lelani clenches her fists and grits her teeth.
    18:57:39.535   432 512 | 552 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:39.851   An animated hawthorn root wraps itself tightly around your neck, squeezing the life out of you.
    18:57:39.852   Damage Taken: 65 asphyxiation (raw damage: 88)
    18:57:39.852   You continue wrestling with the root that is choking you.
    18:57:39.852   Autocuring: eat toadstool
    18:57:39.852   You quickly eat a toadstool.
    18:57:39.853   Your veins burn and you feel a stabbing pain in your head as the toadstool cleanses the wisp poison 
    18:57:39.853   from your body.
    18:57:39.853   Damage Taken: 26 poison (raw damage: 51)
    18:57:39.853   Mana Lost: 57
    18:57:39.853   The wisp poison has been cleared from your body.
    18:57:39.853      [ EDEN ]      Cured  : wisp poison.
    18:57:39.854   340 512 | 494 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:40.962   You may drink another healing elixir.
    18:57:40.962   340 512 | 494 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:40.963   Mana Lost: 4
    18:57:40.963   340 512 | 490 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:40.964   Autocuring: sip mana
    18:57:40.964   You take a drink of an elixir of mana from a sycamore vial.
    18:57:40.964   Mana Gain: 84
    18:57:40.964   Your mind feels rejuvenated.
    18:57:40.965   340 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazoloo
    18:57:41.282   dsl Lelani opium opium
    18:57:41.388   You have recovered your breath and can smoke once more.
    18:57:41.388   340 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 4:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:41.705   You have recovered balance.
    18:57:41.705   You rub some opium on a curved sabre.
    18:57:41.706   You swing a curved sabre at Lelani's head with all your might.here12
    18:57:41.706   Lelani's head trembles slightly under the blow.
    18:57:41.706   You rub some opium on a curved sabre.
    18:57:41.706   Lightning-quick, you jab Lelani's left arm with a curved sabre.here12
    18:57:41.707   Lelani parries the attack with a deft maneuver.
    18:57:41.707   Balance Taken: 2.33s
    18:57:41.707   340 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 5:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:41.708   An animated hawthorn root wraps itself tightly around your neck, squeezing the life out of you.
    18:57:41.708   Damage Taken: 65 asphyxiation (raw damage: 88)
    18:57:41.708   274 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 5:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:41.709   You continue wrestling with the root that is choking you.
    18:57:41.709   274 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 5:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:41.710   Lelani quickly summons a poisonous wisp and with a commanding gesture, sends it flying towards you.
    18:57:41.710   A poisonous wisp flies at you and stings you painfully. An odd burning sensation floods your veins.
    18:57:41.710      [ EDEN ]  Affliction : wisp poison.
    18:57:41.711   A look of utmost concentration appears on Lelani's name, followed by a menacing look in your 
    18:57:41.711   direction.
    18:57:41.711   274 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 5:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:42.016   Lelani clenches her fists and grits her teeth.
    18:57:42.016   274 512 | 575 575 <e- db> 83.82 T: Lelani L: 5:0:0:4:0:0 Q: ciguatoxin, metrazol
    18:57:42.017   You have escaped from the choking grasp of the animated root.
    18:57:42.017      [ EDEN ]      Cured  : choked by a root.
    Please, make it go away.
    (Let's do some math. 5 seconds, 65 * 3 = 195. dps = 39/s. Poor @Aglaeca had to work hard to get his dps ~31 with active skills.)

    E: Yes Ahkan, I r bad DK. :(
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Totally should just stop and hold breath as Dk. They'll get so confused.
  • IniarIniar Member Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Septus said:
    Totally should just stop and hold breath as Dk. They'll get so confused.
    Definitely. :( I'm pretty bad.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Brishi dives forward to thrust a blade-tipped glaive into your left arm.
    Painful bruises are forming on your left arm.

    No previous limb damage. This doesn't seem right at all.
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    It's always been that way. =[
  • AzefelAzefel Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm amazed it didn't break it one hit (unless you were DK with plate limb armour at the time).

    bruises plimb is the only time plimb is useful (and then it's stupidly good)
  • AkumuAkumu Member Posts: 21 ✭✭
    The instant break from plimb is pretty ridiculous for keeping someone perma prone after a sshot incendiary. Easily fixed in the next classlead though ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.